Kennedy faces fresh calls to quit

[Pickman's model]

yeh. well. he has quit. there you go.

i do hope he doesn't drink himself to death.

 

[guinnessdrinker]

softened as a Tory by constant contact with Diane Abbot, Michael Portillo defects to the LibDems. he rises to the rank of leader within weeks

you're not joking here. you're hitting a truth that I must fully admit have been said before on these boards. when do they start taking making babies?

edited: for coming back from the pub on this very thread....

 

[guinnessdrinker]

Not the point i'm afraid. In politics there's only so much you can get away with, he tried it and failed then played the sympathy angle (which seems to have gone down well on here) to cling on to his job.

there are plenty of alkies in here.

 

[Pickman's model]

there are plenty of alkies in here.

 

[guinnessdrinker]

it's a bit of a shoddy way to treat someone, to be supportive while he's drinking to excess and then to try to evict him when he tries to do something about it.

what's the name of that woman? the daily telegraph talks about "the blond assassin" (hints in the indy yesterday or the day before, another hint, I'm back from the pub )

and will be back...

[another failed attempt to push mr picky off the wagon ]

 

[guinnessdrinker]

Do you know at what point he admitted to himself he had a problem? My point is that he may have consciously misled the public last year but perhaps he didn't in 2002.

You're full of holier than thou bullshit in my opinion

yes, and he never attempted to sue as far as I know.

but then, I am not a lawyer.

 

[guinnessdrinker]

He played the sympathy angle by admitting it when he didn't need to do so? What was his motive for coming out in the first place?

moving on?

 

[guinnessdrinker]

and proud of it.

 

[guinnessdrinker]

I'd be tearing up my membership card, if I actually had one

Oh, well, here's hoping Simon Hughes stands, and is completely thrashed

I hope he gets thrashed, but that's because he is a fucking bloody good constituency MP, and that's not because I read newspapers, but because I live there. and I want a man like him to carry on helping me and my friends (fucking hippies and always ready to support yer man).

some people may disagree with me.

 

[guinnessdrinker]

Him lying for over two years about his drink problem was an example of honesty?

you're talking bollocks.

 

[guinnessdrinker]

He's an elected official

what's an "elected official"?

 

[guinnessdrinker]

Kennedy opposed admitting women as members to Glasgow University Union in his student days (although he now denies this).

Under the party's rules, a leader has to stand for re-election within a year of a general election. Kennedy handed out the ballot papers to the parliamentary party within days of the 2005 election, leaving no time for anyone to mount a challenge, and allowing him to be re-elected unopposed.

As recently as the Jonathan Dimbleby programme on ITV1 on December 18, 2005 when asked "Has it been a battle to stay off the booze, have you had to have medical support in any way at all?" Kennedy replied "No, no, no, that is not the case, it is a matter on all fronts - if there's something my doctor really wants me to do over this holiday period as a matter of fact, is give up smoking and I think he's right". BBC journalist Jeremy Paxman apologised to Kennedy in 2002 after asking in a televised interview if he drank privately "by yourself, a bottle of whisky late at night?". "No I do not," Kennedy replied. In 2004, The Times published a "clarification" over a report it had made stating Kennedy had not taken part in that year's budget debate due to excessive drinking.

During the manifesto launch on his first day back on the campaign trail after the birth of his child, Kennedy struggled to remember the details of a key policy (replacing the Council Tax with a Local Income Tax) at an early morning press conference, which he later blamed on a lack of sleep due to his new child.

The real Charles Kennedy is somewhat different to the "honesty, integrity and a lot of bollocks" you attribute to him.

<edit to add the "lot of bollocks" is about right.>

first bit: maybe it was a joke, taken seriously?

2nd bit: political wilyness, do you expect him to do otherwise?

3rd bit: paxman to be given his due.

4th bit: give him a chance.

 

[guinnessdrinker]

and anyway, you lot of silly sods, I'll be going back to the pub soon, just to annoy you lot.

 

[Pickman's model]

what's an "elected official"?

a member/former member of the workers party sitting in the dail.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

what's an "elected official"?

Bad choice of words, I meant he's accountable by the fact of his election.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

you're talking bollocks.

 

[Pickman's model]

Bad choice of words, I meant he's accountable by the fact of his election.

how & to whom?

 

[Kid_Eternity]

how & to whom?

Well, I thought it was obvious but the theory goes he is accountable to his electors but as leader of his party he's also accountable to the membership. Which one takes priority is another matter I guess...

 

[Pickman's model]

Well, I thought it was obvious but the theory goes he is accountable to his electors

so the ability to hold him to account is theoretical, ie not really real?

 

[Kid_Eternity]

so the ability to hold him to account is theoretical, ie not really real?

Whether it's real or not is largely for the UK populace to decide.

 

[Pickman's model]

Whether it's real or not is largely for the UK populace to decide.

i submit that mps are not accountable to their electorate.

there is no option to instantly recall an mp should s/he vote against her constituents' wishes or interests - and there is no means to determine what those wishes or interests are. several hundred well-organised constituents can wield an excessive influence over their mp to the detriment of the interests of all the rest.

so for four or five years an mp can do pretty much what s/he wants, and will face no penalty should his/her constituents decide they have been extremely ill-served by their so-called representative.

 

[franklin1777]

i submit that mps are not accountable to their electorate.

I agree MP's arent really accountable to the public. There would be a vague argument for saying they are accountable to the press who can occasionally make or break politicians, but they generally represent the publishers agenda first and the public second.

Difficult to suggest how they could be made more accountable though. Short of some sort of no confidence procedure which could get complicated.

 

[audiotech]

Maybe he's embarrassed about it now. I'm embarrassed by some views I held when I was a student and that was only 7 years ago.

Even thirty years ago it was neanderthal.

If those are the rules, surely any potential challenger knows them as well and can plan accordingly. He's stuck to the party's rules and this is a bad thing?

I thought it was sneaky.

Perhaps he was in denial of his problem in 2002, lots of alcoholics are.

Perhaps? He's denied his problems for years. As well as deluding themselves, alcoholics are also a pain in the arse.

For fuck's sake, if I'd just become a father and had to face the press very early the next morning I'd be incoherent too. Where's your evidence this was down to drinking?

His alcoholism.

Fucking pathetic points, get down out of your ivory tower and see things from the point of view of how real human beings behave.

Some similar points (pathetic, or not) led to his downfall.