Ken wants replica guns banned

[likesfish]

germans flog guns that can fire cs cas cartirdges so those would be fairly easyto convert not sure they'd be that safe

 

[chymaera]

Reactivating a deactivated real firearm or just buying a real gun would be infinitely easier.

It depends who does the deactivating and what the firearm is. When I worked at a firearms dealers when we de-activated a firearm, it would would have been easier to build a new firearm from scratch than re-activate it.
(The caveat being we usually only de-activated fully automatic firearms.)

 

[likesfish]

they changed the law on deactivations as somebody brought a load of mac 10s in that were easily reconverted

 

[UID]

It depends who does the deactivating and what the firearm is. When I worked at a firearms dealers when we de-activated a firearm, it would would have been easier to build a new firearm from scratch than re-activate it.
(The caveat being we usually only de-activated fully automatic firearms.)

But is it easier to buy adeactivated gun or a working one in the first place? As Likesfish said, I thought they cahnged the law when they busted that bloke who was converting enough replicas to support an army.

 

[Serotonin]

germans flog guns that can fire cs cas cartirdges so those would be fairly easy to convert not sure they'd be that safe

You mean like Brococks? They have been illegal in the UK for many years. Also as already metioned, like air pistols that are designed to look like real firearms, they do not count as replica firearms, and hence are not covered in the recent VCR Act. Weird I know.

But is it easier to buy adeactivated gun or a working one in the first place? As Likesfish said, I thought they cahnged the law when they busted that bloke who was converting enough replicas to support an army.

Deacts are still legal, but I think they did change the law to govern in what way they are deacivated. Eithr way its probably a milion times easier to buy a real gun from a villain than it is to re activate a de-act or convert a replica gun, liike an airsoft gun, into a working firearm.

Having worked on the internals of lots of airsoft guns, I can assure you they have mre in common with a clockwork toy than they doa real gun, and the metal used to make them, while it may look real from a distant could in no way endure the stresses from firing a real bullet.

 

[Urbanblues]

Wouldn't you support a ban just on upward slopes?

Have you seen the state of my brakes?

 

[detective-boy]

Deacts are still legal,

Legal in what way? To possess in a public place?

 

[Serotonin]

Legal in what way? To possess in a public place?

Of course not. Is this a trick question? Are you trying to catch me out?
Legal to buy and own.

 

[detective-boy]

Are you trying to catch me out?

No, I was just asking for clarification.

I don't think there is a situation in which imitation firearms are legal and deactivated firearms are not. I'm not aware of any definition or case law which prevents a deactivated firearm falling into the imitation category (and some would fall into the category of full firearms if only deactivated a bit).

 

[Serotonin]

Ah ok. I think this is indicative of the poorly thought out legislation that is the VCRA.
Plastic replicas of real guns that fire tiny harmless plastic BBs are now (for the most part) illegal to buy, whereas air pistols that are designed to look like real firearms that shoot metal pelles at lethal speeds are not, just by virtue of the fact that one cannot both be a replica imitation firearm AND a air weapon/firearm.

The VCRA did not cover deactivated weapons and they remain perfectly legal to buy and own (but obviously ot to prance about the street with!).
So you can quite happily go buy a deactivated real AK47, but if you wanted to buy a plastic replica AK47, it would be illegal. A deactivated gun cannot by definition be a realistic imitation firearm/ replica.

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/ACTS/acts2006/ukpga_20060038_en_1

 

[poster342002]

More people get injured by baseball bats and golf clubs in assaults but noone is calling for them to be banned or heavily regulated and license.

All it would take would be for a couple of incidents to make it to the press, another to get on London Tonight and the legislation would be rushed through within a fortnight.

 

[Serotonin]

OOps doulbe post

 

[likesfish]

except rich peopleplay golf so that would be a non starter

 

[detective-boy]

The VCRA did not cover deactivated weapons and they remain perfectly legal to buy and own (but obviously ot to prance about the street with!).

The VCRA does not make it an offence to buy or own a realistic imitation firearm either - it only makes it an offence to manufacture / import or sell them.

My understanding is that various legislation already effectively makes it an offence to make or import a deactivated firearm without a licence. Not sure about the sale though - that could still be a gap, but it may have to be by a licensed firearms dealer.

 

[Serotonin]

The VCRA does not make it an offence to buy or own a realistic imitation firearm either - it only makes it an offence to manufacture / import or sell them.

My understanding is that various legislation already effectively makes it an offence to make or import a deactivated firearm without a licence. Not sure about the sale though - that could still be a gap, but it may have to be by a licensed firearms dealer.

Ah sorry, I poorly phrased it. Yes the sale is the offence not the purchase.
Not sure about deacts, but there are plenty of curio and antique shops here in bristol selling deacts, mainly ak47s and ww2 peices.
I think you need a license to import and maufacture deacts but not to sell. I'm not overly sure as my main investigations have been around replicas- I am a keen airsofter and own many airsoft replicas.

 

[detective-boy]

Not sure about deacts, but there are plenty of curio and antique shops here in bristol selling deacts, mainly ak47s and ww2 peices.

Antiques are another category which has different rules! It would probably make sense to burn all the current laws and put together a single, consistent piece of legislation.

 

[likesfish]

like thats every going to work
our firearms laws and nearly as bonkers as our drug laws

and lets not mention the bill of rights

 

[Azrael]

our firearms laws and nearly as bonkers as our drug laws

I've noted the similarity between the two debates before on these threads. Both topics provoke calls for universal bans. Generalising, the Right wants to ban Evil Drugs and the Left wants to ban Evil Guns.

I don't like blanket prohibition. Not only is a causal link between gun ownership and crime suspect (Canada and the US are both awash with firearms but exhibit different homicide rates, and gun crime in Britain was very low when the firearms trade went unregulated) but the underlying logic of a blanket ban -- criminalise the innocent alongside the guilty -- is disturbing.

And pragmatically, if crooks want guns, they'll get guns. Just like they'll get drugs.

It's attitudes, not ownership, that need fighting. It's not the desire to own a gun that's bad; it's the desire to use it to further thuggery and crime. Our "gun culture" is better described as a criminal culture: guns are simply the most effective tools of brutality. Of course attitudes aren't so easy to legislate against ...

 

[Serotonin]

Well said. Its an intellectually weak position to blame the gun for the problems.

 

[likesfish]

an olympic target pistol is designed for punching precise holes in bits of paper
but its too dangerous to be allowed on this septred isle
so at the commonwealth games target pistols were carted around in an armoured truck

while the bisley machine gun club yes its exists. carted a lewis and vickers machine guns around in the back of a landrover

 

[Serotonin]

Another weird anomoly is that .22 pistols are banned, but .50BMG rifles are perfectly legal. For those not in the know these rifles are sniper rifles that are used for 'anti matter' attacks. ie shooting out armoured vehicles. Obviously civilains cant use th anti matter rounds, but a stabndard .50BMG bullet is absolutely massive and would take someones head off.

.50 round on the far left, .22 far right.

Not that I think these should be banned, just using it as more evidence of the ridiculous nature of our gun laws.

 

[likesfish]

as would any full bore target rifle.
50 cal rifles well apparently super scary and big demand to be banned in America.
there was a plan to ban them in the uk.
they are designed for really really long range shooting and our very very heavy.
SO only really of interest to the well heeled anorak of shooters.
the average crim isn't going to be interested you can hardly leap out of a car and start shooting with the thing. A terrorist would have to be a highly skilled marksman to make use of such a weapon and short of fiction bombs are more effective for mass casualties

 

[detective-boy]

the average crim isn't going to be interested you can hardly leap out of a car and start shooting with the thing.

I think that is the basis of quite a lot of the detail of the firearms legislation - in broad terms long weapons like rifles and shotguns cannot be hidden like short weapons can and so tend not to be used. I can't recall a single instance of a rifle being used in crime (poaching aside) in all my time as a copper (compared with literally hundreds of handguns and sawn-off shotguns).

 

[likesfish]

some domestic murders have been carried out by rifles but few and far between
shotguns can be sawn off rifles its much harder to due and probably unsafe to do so as well

 

[Serotonin]

I think that is the basis of quite a lot of the detail of the firearms legislation - in broad terms long weapons like rifles and shotguns cannot be hidden like short weapons can and so tend not to be used. I can't recall a single instance of a rifle being used in crime (poaching aside) in all my time as a copper (compared with literally hundreds of handguns and sawn-off shotguns).

Well apart from Hungerford, which brought about knee jerk legislation around various types of rifles in much the same way as Dunblane did for handguns.