Ken wants replica guns banned

[Dhimmi]

The point is externally they are, an armed police officer would not know the difference if some muppet pointed one of them at him/her and would be quite rightly justified in killing the muppet.

Point accepted. Really just looking at dispelling the myth that you can buy a cheap springer off a market stall and turn it into a fully functioning weapon.

Isn't already illegal to carry these things in a public space?

Brandishing is illegal, legal carrying, like in a box, bag or gunslip isn't. All airsoft users I know of are very particular about this, even down to having the magazines separate, and never locked in the gun.

 

[treefrog]

Brandishing is illegal, legal carrying, like in a box, bag or gunslip isn't. All airsoft users I know of are very particular about this, even down to having the magazines separate, and never locked in the gun.

Innit. All paintballers I know keep their markers in bags/flightcases, and NEVER take them out in public. We're mad but we're not stupid! I've taken my marker on an aircraft before (in the hold) and dismantled it, and carried the manual and stuff with me in case I was called upon to explain anything. Standard practice is to have the rest of your gear with you so it's obvious what it is...

 

[Dhimmi]

I'm part of a group that's looking into it, we're hoping to draft a set of self-regulation rules by the new year and implement them for next playing season, so that if we come under the spotlight we can show that we're a bunch of sensible, competent people who are being responsible and behaving ourselves. AFAIK there have been no incidents involving scenario paintball markers in the UK, I hope it stays that way.

Whoops missed this one. Well if you want to read about the defence airsoft put up it's on the forum I pm'ed to you, as well as the prime movers behind it. If you want details of the most approachable of them just ask. I'd imagine if pb'ers did the same scheme it would fall under the same defence.

PM'ing you and db the link to the current VCRA thread for airsoft.

 

[chymaera]

I've taken my marker on an aircraft before (in the hold) and dismantled it, ...

How do that get past baggage security? (Serious question, as ports as well as airports are now X-raying baggage, even down the Western end of the English Channel)

 

[treefrog]

It's not against baggage regs to take on replica firearms in the hold, and it breaks down to look nothing like a firearm at all...

 

[scott_forester]

What, imitation firearms?

s.19 Firearms Act 1968 was amended by the Anti-Social Behaviour Act to also make it an offence to carry an imitation firearm (as well as a proper firearm) in a public place ... but it has the rider "without lawful authority or reasonable excuse" and the continuing total lack of contol of the possession of a realistic imitation firearm means that very vague explanations are still accepted as "reasonable excuses".

Aren't these the same conditions for carrying a small knife?

 

[chymaera]

and it breaks down to look nothing like a firearm at all...

So do lots of firearms, a Glock pistol broken down is very difficult to detect.

 

[likesfish]

but the violent crime reduction act or whatever its called is bonkers

realistic airsoft bb gun naughty has to be painted bright yellow unless you get
a letter from an airsoft site

blank firing replica or non blank firing replica the same

realistic looking air pistol no problem

deactivated pistol no problem
the French and Germans manage to let there citizens have access to all sorts of lethal toys without there countries turning into war zones.

sussex police were showing off a klingon batlaff that had been handed in an amnesty. The point they missed it had been handed in so was'nt in the possession of a nutter about to run amock with it.
We banned handguns and does'nt seem to stop criminals having access to such weapons

 

[treefrog]

So do lots of firearms, a Glock pistol broken down is very difficult to detect.

ok, what's your point? Scenario paintball games take place all over the UK and abroad, sometimes it's not possible to drive there. We dismantle the marker, pack it in the hold, don't carry any paint with us or our air bottles, and carry documentation in case there's any problems, which there hasn't been.

I'm not seeing what the issue is here?

 

[chymaera]

I'm not seeing what the issue is here?

You are not be clear if you are declaring it at the check in. That is what worries me. If you can get "guns" similar to those shown on this thread through check in without declaring them, that really does worry me.

 

[detective-boy]

Aren't these the same conditions for carrying a small knife?

Yeah, they are ... and they can be equally abused. There are, however, lots and lots of very genuine reasons for people to have knives (work, etc) and so further controls on possession are pretty much impossible (there have been significant moves to categorise knives and restrict those not needed for common genuine reasons).

There is also the problem that someone brandishing what may be a firearm presents a far higher threat than someone brandishing a knife who can't harm people outside very close range ... so they don't tend to get shot and killed so often when they lose it.

 

[detective-boy]

We banned handguns and does'nt seem to stop criminals having access to such weapons

We banned murder and it doesn't seem to stop people murdering.

Bans and restrictions are never going to stop anything entirely ... but they usually make things more difficult, they restrict supplies and reduce problems. The question is whether that reduction is worth the interference with legitimate activity which is also affected.

 

[treefrog]

You are not be clear if you are declaring it at the check in. That is what worries me. If you can get "guns" similar to those shown on this thread through check in without declaring them, that really does worry me.

In the hold? We've checked with the airlines, replica firearms and the like are allowed on domestic and international flights as long as they are in the hold. You know, that bit underneath where the passengers sit, that you can't get to?

 

[chymaera]

In the hold? We've checked with the airlines, replica firearms (which these technically aren't) are allowed on domestic and international flights as long as they are in the hold. You know, that bit underneath where the passengers sit, that you can't get to?

Are you declaring them or not? A yes or no is sufficient.

 

[treefrog]

No.

 

[chymaera]

No.

That does worry me. I am glad I don't fly anywhere, if the security checks are that lax.

 

[treefrog]

Well, good for you then. Obviously you're missing pretty much the entire point of what I've said, which is that:

-paintball markers are not real guns
-we are entitled to take them on flights IN THE HOLD
-We have never had any problems taking them on flights, which, given that they are in pieces, allowed to be there and IN THE HOLD means that there shouldn't be.
-We carry documentation explaining what they are, and are quite happy to explain should the need arise.

If you read up on it you'll see that there is a surprising amount of articles that can be taken on a flight as long as you don't take them on as hand luggage, and to be honest if anyone was moronic enough to do that they deserve all they get...

 

[Geoff Collier]

As a wheelchair user I'd support a ban on all slopes, slippery or otherwise.

Wouldn't you support a ban just on upward slopes?

 

[TAE]

We banned murder and it doesn't seem to stop people murdering.

 

[TAE]

Well, good for you then. Obviously you're missing pretty much the entire point of what I've said, which is that:

-paintball markers are not real guns
-we are entitled to take them on flights IN THE HOLD
-We have never had any problems taking them on flights, which, given that they are in pieces, allowed to be there and IN THE HOLD means that there shouldn't be.
-We carry documentation explaining what they are, and are quite happy to explain should the need arise.

If you read up on it you'll see that there is a surprising amount of articles that can be taken on a flight as long as you don't take them on as hand luggage, and to be honest if anyone was moronic enough to do that they deserve all they get...

I think the question being raised is how easy it would then be to dismantle a hand gun and take it into the cabin with you undetected.

 

[treefrog]

almost impossible I'd imagine. As I don't work in airport security, own a handgun or have ever attempted to take anything more dangerous than a set of nail clippers on a flight, I'm not in a position to comment.

 

[dylanredefined]

Pretty difficult getting it past the scanners and the xrays even broken down
a gun looks pretty gun like and bullets look like bullets. Since 9/11 do you think pulling a gun out will be enough to take control of a plane anyway?

 

[scott_forester]

almost impossible I'd imagine. As I don't work in airport security, own a handgun or have ever attempted to take anything more dangerous than a set of nail clippers on a flight, I'm not in a position to comment.

I lost my keyring swissarmy knife last week going through Heathrow. They are pretty firm.

 

[scott_forester]

Yeah, they are ... and they can be equally abused. There are, however, lots and lots of very genuine reasons for people to have knives (work, etc) and so further controls on possession are pretty much impossible (there have been significant moves to categorise knives and restrict those not needed for common genuine reasons).

There is also the problem that someone brandishing what may be a firearm presents a far higher threat than someone brandishing a knife who can't harm people outside very close range ... so they don't tend to get shot and killed so often when they lose it.

So I guess this gets to the core of my problem with banning something because criminals abuse them. I carry two knifes everyday and have done so for years. I've got a swiss army knife in my laptop bag and a slipknot penknife that I use for day to day stuff, normally opening packaging.

I have no doubt that at some point in an attempt to curb knife crime someone is going propose that no-one can carry any sort of knife. However, we all know that won't slow knife crime because there is a minimal chance of you ever being stopped and searched by the Police for them to detect criminals breaking the law.

And I kind of think that banning these things will full into the same category, people who carry them for criminal purposes will continue to do so (because by banning them you create a nice criminal market for them) and people who bought them and never dreamed of carrying them in the streets will be denied the right to own them.

Now I've no idea beyond this thread why you'd want to own a blank firing toy but I'm reluctant to ban yet something else so the Government can pretend it's doing something about gun crime.

 

[likesfish]

the french allow civillian to own cs gas spray and stun guns without a licence
black powder firearms without any license
and firearms not in military calibers with a license(you can own an m16 .222reminginton rather than.223 5.56 which is the standard nato round and france isn't awash in gun crime and mayhem
we've just outlawed toy guns

 

[Dhimmi]

but the violent crime reduction act or whatever its called is bonkers

realistic airsoft bb gun naughty has to be painted bright yellow unless you get
a letter from an airsoft site

Well it's not quite that simple, you have to get a membership photo id card which is linked to a central database which retailers have to check against before completing a sale. Plus sales to under 18's is illegal.

 

[stuff_it]

They should perhaps n the ones that can be converted, and the realistic looking ones that people use to threaten people......they could maby make them all bright pink so they couldn't be mistaken for real ones.

 

[treefrog]

wouldn't criminals then also paint their guns pink though?

 

[dash_two]

the French and Germans manage to let there citizens have access to all sorts of lethal toys without there countries turning into war zones.

Unfortunately our society is more violent and loutish than theirs. We don't have as much self-control nowadays and there's more pissheads and thick fuckers running around here.

 

[Serotonin]

Commenting on the apparent ease in which expensive replica guns can be converted into real guns, Ken Livingstone's calling for a ban on their sale.

What do reckon?

(*I assume he's not talking about kids guns, but the near-identical replicas currently sold)

I reckon he talks shit.

The difficulty to turn a replica gun into a real one would be beyond the wit and means of most people, even gunsmiths. Reactivating a deactivated real firearm or just buying a real gun would be infinitely easier.