Ken wants replica guns banned

[JTG]

Bloody hell they've come on, haven't they?

There's a couple of details that suggest it's not real, but not the kind you'd stand around waiting for if someone was waving this around in public...

Yeah, I was comparing it to a real one and whilst the main body stands out a mile as not being the real thing when you study it, the modified add on parts (barrel, stock, mag and rail) are all pretty much spot on.

these things are capable of firing a paintball at over 300 feet per second. Not sure of the range but it's a fair old way.

so I think paintballers are right to be wary of firearms legislation.

 

[Urbanblues]

Yeah, I was comparing it to a real one and whilst the main body stands out a mile as not being the real thing when you study it, the modified add on parts (barrel, stock, mag and rail) are all pretty much spot on.

لك المجاهدين؟

 

[JTG]

لك المجاهدين؟

yes, and twice on sundays

 

[Urbanblues]

yes, and twice on sundays

الجمعة بالتأكيد؟

 

[JTG]

الجمعة بالتأكيد؟

with these knees? you're having a laugh mate

 

[Urbanblues]

with these knees? you're having a laugh mate

الضحك في رمضان؟ انت بوبي مور؟ يقدم بيكون ساندويتش ؛ ويعطي اي علاج قيادتكم الركبتين.

 

[JTG]

الضحك في رمضان؟ انت بوبي مور؟ يقدم بيكون ساندويتش ؛ ويعطي اي علاج قيادتكم الركبتين.

well if you're gonna be like that, I have nothing further to say

 

[Dhimmi]

Looks real enough to me; it's exactly the same as the other three.

Well the hose coming out just behind the magazine to the bottom of the pistol grip, and the nozzle at the rear of the lower pistol grip are the most obvious "non-regular" features.

Yeah, I was comparing it to a real one and whilst the main body stands out a mile as not being the real thing when you study it, the modified add on parts (barrel, stock, mag and rail) are all pretty much spot on.

these things are capable of firing a paintball at over 300 feet per second. Not sure of the range but it's a fair old way.

so I think paintballers are right to be wary of firearms legislation.

Yes the main body is a bit too tubular, but like you say the furniture is very good. I did play paintball for a few years, but back when the guns did look more like you were a plumber.

You're absolutely right of course, normally I'm happy to be corrected, but on this one I'm not because I now see that your sport is being hampered like mine is.

Have paintballers managed to get included in the exemption negotiated by the airsoft trade of similar?

 

[Urbanblues]

Well the hose coming out just behind the magazine to the bottom of the pistol grip, and the nozzle at the rear of the lower pistol grip are the most obvious "non-regular" features.

Dunno about that pal. Sure, the table was stable – cos, a three legged table or stool will never rock; but aesthetically, it didn’t work without the fourth – the symmetry was all to cock.

 

[JTG]

Yes the main body is a bit too tubular, but like you say the furniture is very good. I did play paintball for a few years, but back when the guns did look more like you were a plumber.

You're absolutely right of course, normally I'm happy to be corrected, but on this one I'm not because I now see that your sport is being hampered like mine is.

Have paintballers managed to get included in the exemption negotiated by the airsoft trade of similar?

No idea tbh, I'm a bit new to it all and the interest is strong but still more casual than treefrog's so she's better placed to answer it.

A lot of the cheapie site markers still look as you describe but the ones developed for the serious players are things of wonder. That one up there's a Tippmann A5 customised with a Tacamo AK47 kit (it's also mine ). There are kits available to turn it into an M16 or any number of other things and you can get all sorts of barrels, triggers etc to improve the performance of it. With the technology now giving us fully automatic firing modes etc I guess the fear is that no matter what most of us use the gear for the fact is it can be used for all sorts of other less pleasant ends.

 

[Dhimmi]

Well as per I'm happy to obey the rules to prove I'm a responsible user.

Airsoft is different but very similar. All the guns are replicas of something, and externally are perfect replicas, so all and any real external accessories can be added. Like on your weaver rail you can add any one of a number of optics, etc.

Internally they're nothing like a real gun and can't be converted, you may as well make a gun it'd be easier and even safer, even though it wouldn't be safe at all.

Airsoft is the Japanese version of paintball really. It came about to meet a need for folk who were interested in firearms but who have incredibly tight firearms regs. Recently Chinese and Taiwanese manufacturers have got in on the act, cloning the Japanese models for about half the price. Have a butchers http://www.airsoftscotland.com/acatalog/LPEGs_Low_Priced_Electric_Guns.html

Nice gun by the way.

Of course the playing is great fun, and identical to paintball for that. Also a bit addictive hence so far we've one of these;

Two of these,

Two of these

One of these

One of these

and a few more...

 

[detective-boy]

Ahem! Not everyone.

All coppers are the same. All U75-ers are the same. QED.

 

[chymaera]

Internally they're nothing like a real gun

The point is externally they are, an armed police officer would not know the difference if some muppet pointed one of them at him/her and would be quite rightly justified in killing the muppet.

 

[scott_forester]

Because buying real guns is so difficult.

 

[scott_forester]

The point is externally they are, an armed police officer would not know the difference if some muppet pointed one of them at him/her and would be quite rightly justified in killing the muppet.

Frankly if you're dumb enough to point a fake gun at an armed copper you get what you deserve.

 

[detective-boy]

Because buying real guns is so difficult.

It's massively more difficult than buying realistic imitations, that's for sure.

I trust that if you know how to get a real one you have already informed the police / Crimestoppers.

0800 555111, to save you looking it up. You may even receive a Community Action Trust Reward ...

 

[scott_forester]

It's massively more difficult than buying realistic imitations, that's for sure.

I trust that if you know how to get a real one you have already informed the police / Crimestoppers.

0800 555111, to save you looking it up. You may even receive a Community Action Trust Reward ...

Point being here that once again it's an excellent example of the age old political trick of confusing legislation with action. Handguns are already illegal but are widely available, so why not back the Police to stop and search as many people they want to curb the problem and god forbid employ more Policeman and less 'support officers' now that's a plan we can all sign up to.

 

[chymaera]

Frankly if you're dumb enough to point a fake gun at an armed copper you get what you deserve.

Exactly.

 

[detective-boy]

Point being here that once again it's an excellent example of the age old political trick of confusing legislation with action.

Whilst that is sometimes the case, I think you are wrong here. The fact that very convincing imitation weapons can be lawfully possessed in the street creates policing problems which have been highlighted for years, not least by the armed officers who have to make life and death decisions (including me for five years in the 90s).

The politicians have been very slow to legislate here (and we are still only seeing Ken doing some kite flying - legislation was considered and declined only recently (too difficult to define imitation without catching water pistols, etc. apparently) and so I doubt we shall be seeing it any time soon).

This is NOT another example of legislation fucking up Olympic sports and genuine pastimes - WHY does anyone need to have a realistic imitation firearm in a public place without lawful authority or reasonable excuse (which has existed perfectly well for years in relation to offensive weapons)?

 

[TAE]

... why not back the Police to stop and search as many people they want ...

Because people like me jump up & down shouting 'civil liberties!'.

 

[scott_forester]

Because people like me jump up & down shouting 'civil liberties!'.

Who takes any notice of hippies?

 

[scott_forester]

Whilst that is sometimes the case, I think you are wrong here. The fact that very convincing imitation weapons can be lawfully possessed in the street creates policing problems which have been highlighted for years, not least by the armed officers who have to make life and death decisions (including me for five years in the 90s).

The politicians have been very slow to legislate here (and we are still only seeing Ken doing some kite flying - legislation was considered and declined only recently (too difficult to define imitation without catching water pistols, etc. apparently) and so I doubt we shall be seeing it any time soon).

This is NOT another example of legislation fucking up Olympic sports and genuine pastimes - WHY does anyone need to have a realistic imitation firearm in a public place without lawful authority or reasonable excuse (which has existed perfectly well for years in relation to offensive weapons)?

Well you obviously have an opinion based on experience and I just have an opinion. But, I look back on all these other bans on types of knifes, martial arts weapons and dogs; it makes me wonder if they achieve anything?

 

[treefrog]

You're absolutely right of course, normally I'm happy to be corrected, but on this one I'm not because I now see that your sport is being hampered like mine is.

Have paintballers managed to get included in the exemption negotiated by the airsoft trade of similar?

the short answer is: we don't know. the Scenario paintball scene (running about in woods as opposed to tourney) in the UK is tiny (about 200 regular players) so I think we're currently flying under their radar. The big companies and shops are continuing to sell semi-realistic markers and there has been no trouble so far.

I'm part of a group that's looking into it, we're hoping to draft a set of self-regulation rules by the new year and implement them for next playing season, so that if we come under the spotlight we can show that we're a bunch of sensible, competent people who are being responsible and behaving ourselves. AFAIK there have been no incidents involving scenario paintball markers in the UK, I hope it stays that way.

Chymaera- I would feel very uncomfortable about pointing a gun at someone under any circumstances, thankfully I know the difference between a real gun (which I have handled before) and a paintball marker.

 

[detective-boy]

it makes me wonder if they achieve anything?

All have some effect. Some are easier to enforce than others. Some have more impact on the problem behind their introduction than others. Some allow police and courts to intervene and charge someone before a more serious offence is committed where, in their absence, that would not be possible. But none solve the problem on their own.

 

[detective-boy]

I'm part of a group that's looking into it, we're hoping to draft a set of self-regulation rules by the new year and implement them for next playing season, so that if we come under the spotlight we can show that we're a bunch of sensible, competent people who are being responsible and behaving ourselves.

It would seem to me that an agreement that they should not be carried in public unless securely covered and en route to or from an event (i.e. not left in vehicles for days on end, or carried about in sports bags back and too from work or something) would be a useful point to include.

The problem isn't mostly what people do on private premises, or the possession of the things other than "in the hand" as it were. And neither of those things should prevent your hobby continuing as it is.

If your group would find the advice / views of an ex-police officer useful (if you don't have one on board already), please feel free to PM me.

 

[XR75]

It's the problems facing police officers who ARE trying to protect you that is one of the main drivers for this need. They are regularly faced with realistic imitations and they have a split second to decide whether to shoot (and risk killing someone with an imitation) or not (and risk getting shot themselves, or someone else being shot by someone with a real gun).

Just how many of these incidents of these are people playing with airsoft guns only to have someone ring up the cops based on the scary stories they've read in the papers opposed to robbers holding up a shop then pointing the guns at the police.

And another reason is to prevent teh bad guys getting even more viable weapons (very many of the guns in their hands are converted replicas, so it's cutting off a source of guns, something you claim to want)

It's deceptive to use the term replica when it covers so many different guns from caps guns to blank firers.
It would be interesting to see how and what was converted and then it would be a matter of ease of convertion and not how realistic they look when deciding on new laws.

This is NOT another example of legislation fucking up Olympic sports and genuine pastimes

Incorrect.
It's pushing the notion that anything to do with guns is bad.

 

[XR75]

Well you obviously have an opinion based on experience and I just have an opinion. But, I look back on all these other bans on types of knifes, martial arts weapons and dogs; it makes me wonder if they achieve anything?

Most of it's a load of crap from MP's who want to be seen to do something, playing on the publics ignorance of the subject.
Take the people in the poll who voted against replicas.What do they know on the subject and why did the vote against it.

 

[treefrog]

It would seem to me that an agreement that they should not be carried in public unless securely covered and en route to or from an event (i.e. not left in vehicles for days on end, or carried about in sports bags back and too from work or something) would be a useful point to include.

The problem isn't mostly what people do on private premises, or the possession of the things other than "in the hand" as it were. And neither of those things should prevent your hobby continuing as it is.

If your group would find the advice / views of an ex-police officer useful (if you don't have one on board already), please feel free to PM me.

Cheers D-B, I'll get back to you on that one

 

[scott_forester]

All have some effect. Some are easier to enforce than others. Some have more impact on the problem behind their introduction than others. Some allow police and courts to intervene and charge someone before a more serious offence is committed where, in their absence, that would not be possible. But none solve the problem on their own.

Isn't already illegal to carry these things in a public space?

 

[detective-boy]

Isn't already illegal to carry these things in a public space?

What, imitation firearms?

s.19 Firearms Act 1968 was amended by the Anti-Social Behaviour Act to also make it an offence to carry an imitation firearm (as well as a proper firearm) in a public place ... but it has the rider "without lawful authority or reasonable excuse" and the continuing total lack of contol of the possession of a realistic imitation firearm means that very vague explanations are still accepted as "reasonable excuses".