Ken Livingstone - the case against

[squeegee]

in many cases it'll be plugging how much cheaper using an Oyster card is which is of direct relevance to an audience using the tube who may still be paying full price for paper tickets.

I think gloating is the word. If Oyster was just standard cheaper and nothing else, it would sell itself (ever heard of word of mouth?). Because there are so many catches it has to be pushed. So raise the prices of all other tickets and then gloat about how much cheaper Oyster cards are.

That's how it feels to me when I look at the advertising.

I get your point about having to compete with private companies, but public companies should work on their strengths and part of that is that they are NOT private companies.

If we didn't feel as Londoners that we are being shafted by public services from day to day we wouldn't need to be fed this propaganda to convince us that these companies are there for our benefit.

 

[squeegee]

Why bother to advertise coca cola or pepsi?

If we actually needed a cold sugar caffeine drink to survive then Coke and Pepsi wouldn't need to advertise as much. Alot of advertising is more to do with convincing people to buy products they don't need.

But travelling on the tube? I would prefer all the money is spent on improving the service. Maybe focus groups could be better employed weeding out jobsworth employees like the muppet I spoke to this morning at Finsbury Park Station who informed me that his temporary ticket installation didn't do Oysters.

"The machine's broken"

ME: "But it was broken last week. Are you telling me no one has fixed it yet?"

"I just sell tickets, I'm not a mechanic (honestly he said this)

"Well I want to complain"

"Sure here's a leaflet call this number"

I'm really not as Victor Meldrew as I seem. I let loads go. But this kind of attitude is symptomatic of a public service where the workers feel undervalued. We have sacrificed some noble principles of a public service to the ideology of the corporate world.

Wrong!

 

[squeegee]

The campaign is a £5million campaign to assist Local Authorities to deliver these services more effectively and efficiently.

The Directgov website is purely a tool which we are currently using , in which individuals can use to report such issues in their councils. The Directgov website enables the visitor to put in their postcode and this will "deeplink" them directly through to their Council's website and to the relevant page in which they can find out how they can go about reporting the particular issue they are concerned about.

The problem with this answer is that if you can negotiate a website you can link to your own councils' website so the DirectGov website is pointless.

Another pointless waste of public money

 

[scifisam]

I'm still thinking and reading about the rest of this thread and Ken's actions which have prompted it. I have a predisposition to 'like' Ken Livingstone, for some reason, but am not going to base my vote on that.

However, this argument doesn't stand up:

Did you read all of the article, LOL

Three other diplomatic missions owe more than the US: Angola, Sudan and Nigeria.

The UAE owed almost £500,000 in January according to the Foreign Office minister, Kim Howells. The fine it has agreed to pay represents a considerable discount on the total outstanding fines.

I like the comment, British Diplomats are expected to pay, that does not mean they do pay or are likely to pay.

IMHO, it's much better to target a really rich country, like the US (which had much higher unpaid fees in every other article I've read - 5 times as much as you quoted), than countries like Angola. That's not just to look good, it's because the rich embassies really have no excuse to pay. If the other embassies have also been sent notices to pay, (and so on), we probably wouldn't know about it, because they wouldn't have the money to complain about it as much as the US embassy have. The UAE have paid up some of the money now (it's not unusual for outstanding debts to be paid at less than the original amounts, even in personal civil cases. Even banks will take less than the original charges, on the grounds that it's better than writing the debt off as a bad debt).

It's not a good example to use. I'd expect any Mayor to follow the same course of action.

The 'violent dispute with his partner' story is also a load of codswallop. I'm disturbed about some of the Mayor's comments and some of his policies, not about a made-up story.

 

[TonkaToy]

amd you can add his support fo skyscrapers all over the place.

shoot the fucker

If you don't like skyscrapers, surely one of the worlds biggest financial centres is the wrong place to live?

 

[trashpony]

I think gloating is the word. If Oyster was just standard cheaper and nothing else, it would sell itself (ever heard of word of mouth?). Because there are so many catches it has to be pushed. So raise the prices of all other tickets and then gloat about how much cheaper Oyster cards are.

That's how it feels to me when I look at the advertising.

IME it's people who live in South London who feel that there are so many catches to the Oyster card - as a North Londoner there are none from my perspective. If the tube/bus network is adequate, it's very efficient - it's not Ken's fault that there has been such poor take up on the overground system - see countless threads passim.

Advertising is needed because if they didn't advertise, no one would know it was there. It's more like public information than advertising. I would have thought that Londoners would love the fact that they effectively get cheaper transport than tourists.

Oh and I'm fairly sure Descartes has more or less admitted he's a toryboy with a massive polluting car on the 4x4 thread - he certainly told us how much he likes roaring up Park Lane

 

[squeegee]

Advertising is needed because if they didn't advertise, no one would know it was there. It's more like public information than advertising. I would have thought that Londoners would love the fact that they effectively get cheaper transport than tourists.

God have you all been so indoctrinated. Advertising is needed indeed. Ever heard of word of mouth? That's when a good product sells itself.

It would be like public information except we pay for the privilege of getting slick advertisers pay focus groups to understand what the Londoner is really thinking. How about actually getting the LU staff to actually ask questions and to keep their ears open and listen to the replies.

No joke, the staff at Finsbury Park are a bunch of ignorant jobsworths who won't do anything that's not down on their contract. When Oysters fuck up as they invariably do, I woudn't trust these people to go out of their way to help me out.

But then if more money was spent on staff rather than suits then maybe they wouldn't be so de-motivated and maybe LU would attract some competent workers.

Tourists can all get Oyster cards. And its artificially cheaper, because its LU's baby so they artificially keep the Oyster price down. It's a form of monopoly with the public part doing the controlling and tendering out to every capitalist whore they can get their grubby paws on. And to add insult to injury they spend millions telling us about this artificially put together product designed to get us all hooked to the machine and then watch those prices soar. You doubt me?

And guess who foots the bill?

Yeah thanks Ken Livingstone...Man of the People

 

[guinnessdrinker]

If you don't like skyscrapers, surely one of the worlds biggest financial centres is the wrong place to live?

I don't live in canary wharf .they're fine on the horizon far away in clusters, but as individual building all over the place, they're not.

 

[Bob]

I've not got it to hand but the payment of about £750,000 to Bob Kiley as a consultant for which he has to do very little work should be added to this list...

 

[ska invita]

1. Abolishing the Routemaster when he said he'd keep it.

Banned in line with EU regulation - also cant get on them with a wheelchair or pram.

2. Raising fares when he said he'd freeze them.

As posted above, fairs are not raised.

3. Supporting the police uncritically over the De Menezes killing.

4. Supporting the government's anti terror laws that allow you to be detained for months without trial.

5. In one of the world's greatest immigrant built cities saying that an Indian born pair should 'go home' because he's having a disagreement with them.

Dont know the details on these, but to paint Ken as a pushover on Government policy is wrong

6 An unapologised for attack on his pregnant partner

I dont think any of us can say what happened on that one

7 Accepting the Evening Standards' money for years, then suddenly pretending he has a principled opposition to them.

Sounds like a good scam to pull....

strong support for CCTV extension & ID cards

Utter cunt.

Weakening planning legislation so his corrupt City friends can bl;ight London's skyline

not a big fan of skyscrapers, but now they're up a few more wont hurt.

Support for Blair in elections

well, he is a member of the Labour party.

Supporting police crackdown on May Day protestors

Well, he is the mayor, and MayDay portestors do cause havoc - its his job not to allow offices to get smashed up - he's got proven red stripes anyhow. No mayor who suports RTS/Mayday would be allowed in the job

Favouring regressive taxes that hit the poor hardest (Congestion charge)

I support the C Charge - brave and bold policy - worth a try.

Separatist whining that London is hard done by compared to the rest of the country

Thats his job.

Kens alright by me - plenty plenty plenty worse candidates - count yourself lucky.

 

[tim]

6 An unapologised for attack on his pregnant partner


.

Was he accused of attacking her? I thought the to do was about someone who fell down some stairs, after criticising Red K for telling his partner of for smoking. There's lenty to say about him without risking a charge of libel

 

[Descartes]

ROFLMAO... Take the blinkers off... ..stop.. I've got it now, You are Ken's agent.... you work for him? sent to troll through all the boards putting up indefensible arguments about Ken...

 

[Casement75]

Descartes... I know this may be very hard for you to accept, but plenty of people admire Livingstone and are happy to defend his record. We can't possibly all be on his payroll, y'know. Keep paying your £8.00 (or is it £15.00 for you?) Everything will be fine...

 

[Descartes]

For all Ken Livingstone Fans, how much does he pay for posts? or are they called Bungs....

The people I meet and have known for years see Ken,, or Red Ken as just about the lowest form of politically life, but you are taken in by the hype...

The question has to be asked, Do we need a London Mayor, in it's present role?

What does he actually do or look after, that wasn';t being looked after equally well before he came along? And, we didn't have to pay for the losses associated with the Congestion charge.

Why should council tax payers have to susidise a non profit making organisation?

 

[scott_forester]

At first I voted for Ken thinking the idea of a independent in the Mayors office was a good thing. The CC was a good thing as well, but now he's a one trick pony. He spent the first term in office trying to get back into the Labour Party and the 2nd term lobbying for the financial disaster that will be the Olympics 2012.

I really can't see the point of the Mayors Office anymore. Apparently he has sole control over areas of policy e.g. bus fairs that have no democratic checks, if every assembly member votes against a tube fair hike he can still do it. How is that local accountability?

I have little time for Ken and even less for his post.

 

[citydreams]

Do we need a London Mayor, in it's present role?

Absolutely. Who else is going to look out for London as a whole?

Would you do away with the GLA too?

I think there is still too much closed-government going on at City Hall. But that should be resolved through a democratic process rather than sniping from the sidelines.

 

[Descartes]

Look after london as a whole... a whole what?

Trams, tubes and buses... London Transport... used to do that and very well.

Fire Brigade, local authorities, no problems..

Police, same..

Roads. deparment of Transport together with local councils.. Local councils were aware of priorities... not like Ken in his Ivory Tower

The mayor.. what about the Lord Mayor.. duplication of roles.. Ken would never dress up,

Olympics.... get ready for the scandal and the sell off of compulsory purchased land for the games... compensation to businesses... Not from Ken.... With the other leech, Lord Coe.. get ready for the bungs and, if you are a londoner, you and I are paying...

The olympics are for the country.. why are Londoners paying so much...

Last time Ken thught up a silly idea of all the London Boroughs paying to subsidise the Tube... Bromley who have no tube took Ken and co to court and got it all squashed.

 

[citydreams]

Look after london as a whole... a whole what?

a whole region.. London needs more investment than the city of London generates.

Trams, tubes and buses... London Transport... used to do that and very well.

please provide some evidence. As someone who works there I can tell you how disjointed the whole organisation was pre-TfL

Fire Brigade, local authorities, no problems..Police, same..

not quite true.. there's now more police in every borough as a result of the london precept.

With regards to the London Boroughs, I think the mayor has managed to improved co-ordination through the use of LIPS.

Local councils were aware of priorities...

such as?

The olympics are for the country.. why are Londoners paying so much...

because the investment mainly comes back to London.

 

[Nickster]

The mayor.. what about the Lord Mayor.. duplication of roles.. Ken would never dress up,

I thought the Lord Mayor was just a ceremonial position and only covers the City of London (not Greater London)?

 

[kyser_soze]

Ever heard of word of mouth? That's when a good product sells itself.

But WOM is NOT effective at reaching large numbers of people quickly, and more importantly, accurately. But you have an ideological opposition to advertising so there's little point in arguing with you.

 

[nino_savatte]

I thought the Lord Mayor was just a ceremonial position and only covers the City of London (not Greater London)?

Absolutely correct. The Lord Mayor is only in the role for a year, when another is selected.

 

[nino_savatte]

So, a question for those who are vehemently anti-Livingstone: would you like to see the office of mayor scrapped and the GLA abolished or would you rather someone else win the mayoral election? Someone like Shagger Norris or (yes, he has been tipped as a candidate), Sir John Stevens perhaps?

I've gone off Livingstone btw, but then his office isn't as powerful as it first appears. In fact, he is less powerful as mayor than he was as leader of the GLC.

 

[kyser_soze]

There's always the option of NICK FERRARI running for the tories.

The only good thing to come from that would be to see the talentless, useless oaf find out that his opinions resonate with only a small number of rabidly arseholish Londoners...

 

[nino_savatte]

There's always the option of NICK FERRARI running for the tories.

The only good thing to come from that would be to see the talentless, useless oaf find out that his opinions resonate with only a small number of rabidly arseholish Londoners...

I'd forgotten about Ferrari. The Lib Dems also seem to have trouble finding anyone with sufficient charisma (well, look at their front bence ffs) to challenge King Ken.

 

[Roadkill]

Someone like Shagger Norris or (yes, he has been tipped as a candidate), Sir John Stevens perhaps?

Shagger Norris was on some lunchtime news programme a while back and said that he was keen to stand.

 

[Descartes]

At least with Shagger you know what he's up to but Ken gets all violent with his partner, slags off an Evening Standard reporter, generally acts like a total dick head.

Shagging is usually with the consent of both parties.... LOL you can't say that about Ken.

Now, Congestion charge, the locals are already complaining that the traffic lights have been reprogrammed to cause longer queues it's called pedestrian priority so that when the zone fees become due, the traffic will suddenly start flowing agains, same as he did with the central zone.

The greater the zonal arewa the greater hope of breaking even.. in ten years time.

Can anyone give the total figure for the loss of money of the congestion zone, installation,upkeep, staff, staffing levels, court charges against total income?

 

[Leon]

You've got to love Ken. And don't get swayed by all the crap the Standard cooks up about him.

There's no one better for mayor.

 

[Descartes]

But, how about we give someone else the chance and find out for sure?