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Keep Burberry british?.

durruti02 said:
MC i don't know how old you are so may be you do not know how these this would have worked in the 7ts ..

we used to have regional policies and support for industries from the govt
AND
the threat that if an employer wanted to shut a factory it would have to put up a fight .. surely you know this :eek: :confused: :eek: :confused:

capital is making vast sums from people currently way better than in the 7ts and YET they still wnat to maiximise profits .. the response of the uk unions to burberrys and similar has been pathetic

maybe wrongly i have failed to purge myself of the leninist doctrine that we need a better leadership!

We now live in the 2000ties :D and there are no subsidies to industry coming from government.

In the seventies there was a rank and file movement that bypassed leadership. There is no such movement today.
 
MC5 said:
We now live in the 2000ties :D and there are no subsidies to industry coming from government.

In the seventies there was a rank and file movement that bypassed leadership. There is no such movement today.

fair play .. of course ..

.. and all i argue on thesethreads is that we need to rebuild that movement/class
 
durruti02 said:
fair play .. of course ..

.. and all i argue on thesethreads is that we need to rebuild that movement/class

Well yes. With only 8 percent of people I work with in a union. Mine is an uphill battle.
 
what a pathetic, self defeatist load of utter crap

no wonder this can just happen with little opposition, just whinging in the sidelines

fucking solidarity

hoh fucking hoh

you'd rather whinge about the general principle on a bulletin board than doing anything

cunts
 
cesare said:
fucking solidarity

hoh fucking hoh
I'm all for solidarity. And much as I sympathise with Burberry's British workers, my first responsibility must lie with the Chinese workers with whom I live and work. In mainland China there is much work to be done on improving the lot of workers - in particular agricutural workers, but also those involved in manufacturing - and the task is not easy. It's not a democracy, it's illegal to organise and there are few of the checks and balances in place on govt. or business that are taken for granted in the UK.

First and foremost, however, is the need to create more jobs. As long as there are ever more bodies prepared to line up and throw themselves through the factory doors and onto the production line, there's little incentive for either govt. or business to improve things. In the south of the country, things are improving - there is an increasing demand for (and increasing shortages of,) skilled. trained workers (they take their saved-up wages and piss-off home for a few months at a time) and wages are rising as a result. Many factories are, therefore, closing and relocating further inland where jobs are in shorter supply.

But still we need more jobs. Millions of people become unemployed every year as the economy restructures and millions more leave the countryside and swarm to the cities in search of work. Millions of jobs need to be created each year in order to provide them the means to feed their families.

There is no way to improve the conditions of workers unless there are workers and there are no workers if there are no jobs.

So whereas I have sympathy for British Burberry workers, I very much doubt that the closure of this factory and the loss of their jobs will see any of them, or any families, thrown into abject, grinding poverty - hungry and worrying for their very survival.

In China, without more jobs, people will, without doubt, be condemned to (continue) living in grinding, abject, poverty and hunger.

I was watching a documentary the other day and they were interviewing this girl of about 13 or 14 years old. She was weeping as she explained how she hadn't been to school for the last three years, since her family had fallen on hard times. Three years ago, this child's education - the only person in the family to get one - became a luxury the family could no longer afford. She was weeping because she was smart enough to know that her education was the one and only chance that her family would ever have to really better their lot - and she saw it all slipping away.

The cost of her schooling was RMB 20 per month (GBP 1:30p).

The whole family of seven had no shoes.


On balance, under the circumstances, it seems logical for my sympathy to lie with these British workers, but my solidarity to lie with my comrades in China.

And anyway, it's not like we see much worker-solidarity coming this way, from the UK, now is it?

As long as there are such massive imbalances in the distribution of wealth in the world, it seems inevitable that capital will succeed in driving a wedge between various groups of workers. The faster, therefore, that all workers can help those in the most desperate of need to improve their conditions, the faster all workers will derive lasting benefit.

It will be a long, hard struggle. But I see no other way.

:)

Woof
 
Jessiedog, that piece of invective from me wasn't aimed at you.

Of course you'll see it from the perspective of where you live and work, that's only natural.

I suppose I'm angry because so many people worked hard for years to keep Treorchy going, in the days when Burberry wasn't doing as well as it is now and every penny counted.

To close it now, to close it when revenue and profits are healthy, to close it just to make more profit ... it feels so wrong, so cold and harsh.

If the decision makers at Burberry are prepared to do that Jessiedog, they'll do it again to the people in China at some point. There will always be a cheaper source of labour somewhere in the world to take advantage of.
 
cesare said:
Jessiedog, that piece of invective from me wasn't aimed at you.

Of course you'll see it from the perspective of where you live and work, that's only natural.

I suppose I'm angry because so many people worked hard for years to keep Treorchy going, in the days when Burberry wasn't doing as well as it is now and every penny counted.

To close it now, to close it when revenue and profits are healthy, to close it just to make more profit ... it feels so wrong, so cold and harsh.

If the decision makers at Burberry are prepared to do that Jessiedog, they'll do it again to the people in China at some point. There will always be a cheaper source of labour somewhere in the world to take advantage of.
Yer.

I know.

:(

Woof
 
To jessiedog:

You are looking at the micro economic question. What about the macro economic question? Burberry is still British, the move of production to China will only help maintain its brand.

Although the Chinese government surely benefits through taxes etc, is this really the best way for China to produce more jobs for the future? How much of the profits will be channelled back into the economy?

Not that I have the answers. Just the questions.:)
 
Knotted said:
To jessiedog:

You are looking at the micro economic question. What about the macro economic question? Burberry is still British, the move of production to China will only help maintain its brand.
That's true.



Although the Chinese government surely benefits through taxes etc, is this really the best way for China to produce more jobs for the future? How much of the profits will be channelled back into the economy?

Not that I have the answers. Just the questions.:)
My immediate concern is to see enough jobs created to soak up those seeking them - it would be a very bad idea to have tens of millions of unemployed peeps actively seeking work in China right now.

Without foriegn investment, China could not provide enough jobs. For sure there are imbalances in the economy and tensions arising therefrom. But jobs are what's needed right now. If some of them come at the cost of the jobs of UK workers, that's unfortunate, but Chinese workers are very grateful to have a job and, at the moment, their need is greater.

In a perfect world, there would be enough well-paid work, for everyone.

The world is not yet perfect.



Woof
 
Jessiedog said:
That's true.




My immediate concern is to see enough jobs created to soak up those seeking them - it would be a very bad idea to have tens of millions of unemployed peeps actively seeking work in China right now.

Without foriegn investment, China could not provide enough jobs. For sure there are imbalances in the economy and tensions arising therefrom. But jobs are what's needed right now. If some of them come at the cost of the jobs of UK workers, that's unfortunate, but Chinese workers are very grateful to have a job and, at the moment, their need is greater.

In a perfect world, there would be enough well-paid work, for everyone.

The world is not yet perfect.



Woof


You talk as if you were in on the decision making. There are short term questions and long term questions, but I would see any points we make as being points of analysis not policy as such.

I don't buy the idea that the interests of Chinese and Welsh workers are in conflict here. Ultimately the reason is that profits and job creation are not the same thing. The Chinese government might need more foreign investment, but for what purposes? What is the real motivation behind the government strategy, cash or job creation?
 
cesare said:
Jessiedog, that piece of invective from me wasn't aimed at you.

Of course you'll see it from the perspective of where you live and work, that's only natural.

I suppose I'm angry because so many people worked hard for years to keep Treorchy going, in the days when Burberry wasn't doing as well as it is now and every penny counted.

To close it now, to close it when revenue and profits are healthy, to close it just to make more profit ... it feels so wrong, so cold and harsh.

If the decision makers at Burberry are prepared to do that Jessiedog, they'll do it again to the people in China at some point. There will always be a cheaper source of labour somewhere in the world to take advantage of.

Good points.
 
cesare said:
what a pathetic, self defeatist load of utter crap

no wonder this can just happen with little opposition, just whinging in the sidelines

fucking solidarity

hoh fucking hoh

you'd rather whinge about the general principle on a bulletin board than doing anything

cunts

sorry hope that not aimed at me? wrong target ..
 
cesare said:
Hmmm

I s'pose MC5 defeatist attitude mainly ... :shrugs:

Defeatist? :confused: I related the fact that in my workplace only 8 percent are union members, yet I continue to be active as a rep and urge others to get involved.

I also pointed out that there was no rank and file movement to speak of. Now that's unfortunate, but true.

Nevertheless, I believe that one can be built. Maybe not tomorrow, but certainly sometime in the not too distant future.

The problem with your 'attitude' is you think short-cuts like appealing to public opinion & the intervention of the fucking Prince of Wales will win through, when it is only the confident self activity of workers that can do that. In the case of the Burberry dispute, confident self activity was absent I'm sorry to say.

That's not being 'defeatist'. It's facing up to the reality of the here and now.

To add: I'm particularly optimistic about how the working class has become increasingly globalised.
 
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