just been on a nu disco board and discovered more about London Israel protests...

[In Bloom]

Adbusters

 

[In Bloom]

I would also add that there's nothing inheresntly dodgy about wondering how many jews there are in the US govet. The question is who's doing it and why? From there you can deduce a few things, but the actual question is perfectly legitimate.

So there's absolutely nothing wrong with suggesting that US foreign policy is controlled by a shadowy cabal of rich Jews? That shit is out of order regardless of who says it or their purported intentions.

 

[Fedayn]

So there's absolutely nothing wrong with suggesting that US foreign policy is controlled by a shadowy cabal of rich Jews? That shit is out of order regardless of who says it or their purported intentions.

Read what I said again, as you are so fond of saying. If I said the same question would you think it meant that I was arguing in favour of a Jewish conspiracy theory? Would the number of Jews in the US government mean perhaps a weighted position to 'support Israel right or wrong'. As I said, the question in and of itself is not inherently wrong. Why you're asking and what you're seeking to imply is where it gets dodgy.

Btw as the son of a jewish man i'm not a huge fan of jewish conspiracy theories.

 

[frogwoman]

While Zachor is being a cock (not exactly anything new) it is true that some leftists are aligning themselves with (or at least failing to challenge) some seriously dodgy groups and individuals. Not to mention some of the shit some leftists come out with all on their own, anybody else remember when adbusters published a list of all the "Jews" in the US government of the time?

Good post.

 

[In Bloom]

Read what I said again, as you are so fond of saying. If I said the same question would you think it meant that I was arguing in favour of a Jewish conspiracy theory? Would the number of Jews in the US government mean perhaps a weighted position to 'support Israel right or wrong'. As I said, the question in and of itself is not inherently wrong. Why you're asking and what you're seeking to imply is whaere it gets doidgy.

Btw as the son of a jewish man i'm not a huge fan of jewish conspiracy theories.

I think the question itself carries certain racist assumptions and implications. The suggestion that there is a link between US foreign policy with regards to Israel and the number of Jews in the US government rests upon the idea that there is some kind of shared racial interest between all Jewish people.

All I'm trying to say is that "the Left" doesn't do itself any favours by aligning itself with nationalist groups and pandering to anti-semitism.

 

[Fedayn]

I think the question itself carries certain racist assumptions and implications. The suggestion that there is a link between US foreign policy with regards to Israel and the number of Jews in the US government rests upon the idea that there is some kind of shared racial interest between all Jewish people.

All I'm trying to say is that "the Left" doesn't do itself any favours by aligning itself with nationalist groups and pandering to anti-semitism.

As I said, it depends why you ask the question. If you ask to question to call the bluff of those who claim the Jewish comspiracy is it then anti-semitic or based on a defence of idiotic conspiracy claims.

Though obviously i'm just in it for a spot of self-hating.

 

[Blagsta]

Thats worrying but sadly not something that I'm fantastically shocked about. I know what you mean about the attitude of intolerance. It does people on the left no favours (and groups like the bnp a big favour) to line up with clerical fascists.

I dont' just mean Muslim clerical fascists but from any religion. I'd be uncomfortable with left people aligning themselves with a demo or a group calling for the reconversion of England to Catholicism and doing it is a violent and intimidating way or followers of the Rev Fred Phelps or other types of similar extremist.

It sounds like there was at least one person who could step outside the dogma and see that something was wrong, thats good.

oh the irony!

 

[Blagsta]

While Zachor is being a cock (not exactly anything new) it is true that some leftists are aligning themselves with (or at least failing to challenge) some seriously dodgy groups and individuals. Not to mention some of the shit some leftists come out with all on their own, anybody else remember when adbusters published a list of all the "Jews" in the US government of the time?

Agreed. However, there is a lot of irony in Zachor's post, seeing as his political views have changed in line with his conversion to Judaism!

 

[winjer]

I'd be uncomfortable with left people aligning themselves with a demo or a group calling for the reconversion of England to Catholicism and doing it is a violent and intimidating way or followers of the Rev Fred Phelps or other types of similar extremist.

And yet you have no problem aligning yourself with a maximalist like Ehud Olmert.

 

[Fedayn]

And yet you have no problem aligning yourself with a maximalist like Ehud Olmert.

He has no problem aligning himself with Israel whatever it does full stop.

 

[discokermit]

I'm very interested in the demos having a positive effect so, like I said, keep it happy and make the right statement.......Please .

you say that but the most positive and successful demo in recent history was the poll tax demo which ended in the biggest riots london had seen for two hundred years.

so, the facts speak differently.

 

[In Bloom]

you say that but the most positive and successful demo in recent history was the poll tax demo which ended in the biggest riots london had seen for two hundred years.

so, the facts speak differently.

TBH, the riots probably had far less effect than the non-payment campaign, which made the whole thing unworkable.

 

[Fedayn]

TBH, the riots probably had far less effect than the non-payment campaign, which made the whole thing unworkable.

Spot on IB.

 

[discokermit]

that's your opinion, ib.

in my opinion, they were both tremendously important. the riots fuelled the non payment campaign so can not be seperated from it. proof that the violence did not scare away support, anyway.

 

[winjer]

TBH, the riots probably had far less effect than the non-payment campaign, which made the whole thing unworkable.

Do you not think that without the riots (esp. outside central London) were in large part a response to attempts to enforce non-payment penalties, and successfully countered them?

 

[In Bloom]

that's your opinion, ib.

Yes, it is.

in my opinion, they were both tremendously important. the riots fuelled the non payment campaign so can not be seperated from it. proof that the violence did not scare away support, anyway.

I've no problem with the use of violence, in the right circumstances, I just think that the importance of the riots has been hugely overemphasised after the fact.

Do you not think that without the riots (esp. outside central London) were in large part a response to attempts to enforce non-payment penalties, and successfully countered them?

While there might be an element of truth in that, I don't think that the government stood a reasonable chance of enforcing the penalties in the first place. In any case, the riots were definately secondary to the non-payment campaign.