Judge wants *everyone* in the UK on DNA database
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All UK 'must be on DNA database'
The whole population and every UK visitor should be added to the national DNA database, a senior judge has said
I agree with the judge, IN PRINCIPLE. But given the governments track record of disastrous IT projects, I can't see it working, (yet).
All UK 'must be on DNA database'
The whole population and every UK visitor should be added to the national DNA database, a senior judge has said
I agree with the judge, IN PRINCIPLE. But given the governments track record of disastrous IT projects, I can't see it working, (yet).
Strangeways
New Member
Perhaps the judge would care to volunteer his DNA and fingerprints to the cops so they can eliminate him from their enquiries.
Roadkill said:
There are a number of very important good points with a total national DNA data base, not all connected with crime solving. Identifying people who have lost their memory and dead people with no ID on them. (Some people killed in disasters and major accidents still remain unidentified.)
Strangeways
New Member
That's not a very big number, is it.chymaera said:
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
And how common is that?. Not very at all.chymaera said:
Strangeways
New Member
Yeah, for someone who said there were a number of good reasons to have this daft database, he didn't say the number was 2 or 3.sleaterkinney said:And how common is that?. Not very at all.
Psychonaut
Well-Known Member
that judge said:
you see - by giving him your DNA you'll be showing solidarity alongside all the oppressed ethnic minorities
To be fair, I think his actual point is that the current system is essentially random and unfair (due to the keeping of DNA from people arrested for a recordable offence but never charged, or charged and later acquitted). I have raised this a number of times and offered up two alternative ways of addressing the issue: (a) go back to only keeping DNA from convicted persons, destroying samples taken from people later acquitted or (b) take samples from everyone.editor said:
He seems to have favoured the latter. I favour the former and, listening to Tony McNulty and the ACPO lead (CC Tony Lake from Lincolnshire) it seems they do to (or at least something in that direction). Though I suspect the cost / logistics of a database with everyone on it is what is putting them off the idea most!
editor said:
What percentage of the population benefits from ANY kind of DNA database right now?
I agree with you; it's a crap idea, but we could use your argument to not even bother with a criminal DNA database.
detective-boy said:
How comes the BBC are saying he wants everyone on the DNA database then?
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
Give us some figures then, I'd hate to think you were making this all up.chymaera said:
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
Nevermind the cost, what right to the police have to store information about me if I haven't done anything wrong?detective-boy said:
KeyboardJockey
Clowns to the Left of me
The danger is not what this govt will do witha national dna database but what a future govt will do with it.
I reckon loads of people wandered round in Weimar Germany with id documents thinking 'If you've got nothing to hide you have nothing to fear' until things changed.
Without the advanced technology that the Germans bought from Watson Business Machines (later IBM) the Nazi's would never have been able to categoriese and round up so many people with such efficiency.
Don't just think 'dna database good it will deal with the chavs' think 'dna database who is going to exploit it for evil in the future'.
I reckon loads of people wandered round in Weimar Germany with id documents thinking 'If you've got nothing to hide you have nothing to fear' until things changed.
Without the advanced technology that the Germans bought from Watson Business Machines (later IBM) the Nazi's would never have been able to categoriese and round up so many people with such efficiency.
Don't just think 'dna database good it will deal with the chavs' think 'dna database who is going to exploit it for evil in the future'.
sleaterkinney said:
I have not any figures to hand, it is however notoriously difficult to identify bodies that have been in water for a long time. Over the course of a year, bodies found in rivers,canals, lakes,old quarry pits, dredged up, dragged up in fishing nets and washed ashore is a considerable number and it is often a time consuming expensive task to identify them.
Strangeways
New Member
As an aside, I wonder how many unidentifiable bodies are found each year dragged up in fishnets.chymaera said:
They're not, at least not as his principle point which is, as I have said, that they current system is unfair / illogical. If you knew how to critically read media reports, looking at what was actually behind the headlines, you'd be able to work that out for yourself ...YoursTruely said:
e.g.
3rd paragraph of BBC report said:
See that "It would be fairer ..." bit?
Boris Sprinkler
Dont be scared
unfortunately if you have been charged with a crime, your DNA is already in their hands, and there's fuck all i can do about it for a mistake I made 7 years ago.
Why have you asked me, seeing as that is exactly what I don't suggest? Or are you one of these people who sees I am an ex-police officer and assumes they know what I think ...sleaterkinney said:
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
Another tobyjug fact, i.e. bullshit....chymaera said:
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
You made the point that is was only the cost that was stopping them the most, I was putting the point across that privacy is a more important point.detective-boy said:Why have you asked me, seeing as that is exactly what I don't suggest? Or are you one of these people who sees I am an ex-police officer and assumes they know what I think ...
I don't see what the problem is with the current system, frankly.
This argument about "ethnic minorities" doesn't hold water, really, does it? DNA samples can be used to prove that someone was the rapist, or that someone was at the scene of a crime, etc.
I can't see how someone's DNA sample can be used in a way that is discriminatory in terms of investigating crimes.
Giles..
This argument about "ethnic minorities" doesn't hold water, really, does it? DNA samples can be used to prove that someone was the rapist, or that someone was at the scene of a crime, etc.
I can't see how someone's DNA sample can be used in a way that is discriminatory in terms of investigating crimes.
Giles..
It's fairer if everyone is a suspect all of the time, not just the darkies? It amazes me what passes for rational argument these days.
Tobes has what a psychologist would call 'sado-masochistic libidinal investments' in issues of state authority and violence. It is alas a surprisingly common phenomenon, but not one that should be entertained with any seriousness in the political arena.
Tobes has what a psychologist would call 'sado-masochistic libidinal investments' in issues of state authority and violence. It is alas a surprisingly common phenomenon, but not one that should be entertained with any seriousness in the political arena.
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