Judge me by my enemies

Discussion in 'world politics, current affairs and news' started by JuanTwoThree, Jan 13, 2019.

  1. JuanTwoThree

    JuanTwoThree All Cretans are liars, Epiminides (Cretan)

    FDR said something like 'I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made', which Comey has quoted in an answer to Trump.

    Does that really work? For example, from a left point of view De Gaulle was an enemy of fascism and of American influence in post-war Europe. He was even an enemy of the pied-noirs who tried to stop him de-colonising North Africa. It hardly made him a friend.
     
  2. danny la rouge

    danny la rouge Without music, life would be a mistake.

    Not really, no. And it’s certainly no way to find friends.
     
  3. likesfish

    likesfish an angry pretend soldier shooting at seagulls

    You can look at all the horrible regimes the left has embraced because they were anti american.
     
    SpookyFrank, greenfield and CRI like this.
  4. NoXion

    NoXion Keep an eye out for diamonds

    It certainly makes for a pithy phrase, but doesn't really stand up to scrutiny.
     
  5. JuanTwoThree

    JuanTwoThree All Cretans are liars, Epiminides (Cretan)

    It does have an immediate appeal but really is bollocks the more you look at it. What about?:

    "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" is an ancient proverb which suggests that two opposing parties can or should work together against a common enemy. The earliest known expression of this concept is found in a Sanskrit treatise on statecraft, the Arthashastra, which dates to around the 4th century BC, while the first recorded use of the current English version came in 1884. (Wikipedia)
     
  6. fishfinger

    fishfinger تپلی

    That's worse.
     
    Pickman's model likes this.
  7. JuanTwoThree

    JuanTwoThree All Cretans are liars, Epiminides (Cretan)

    I think I agree. People have been trotting it out for centuries though.
     
  8. danny la rouge

    danny la rouge Without music, life would be a mistake.

    That’s what I was referring to with my second sentence.
     
  9. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model every man and every woman is a star

    threads work best when the op makes sense.
     
  10. SpookyFrank

    SpookyFrank If it's alive, don't lick it.

    Either/or thinking is a terrible trap to get into. It's very powerful even though it never atually makes the slightest bit of sense.
     
  11. JuanTwoThree

    JuanTwoThree All Cretans are liars, Epiminides (Cretan)

    Did you wake up particularly stroppy this morning? It's a widely quoted remark by FDR, recently re-used by Comey. I wondered if it worked. The De Gaulle example isn't the best one, I'm sure. But the op makes sense. Enlighten me how it doesn't.
     
  12. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model every man and every woman is a star

    your thread is about judging people by their enemies yet you suddenly introduce this 'it hardly made him a friend' at the end which makes no sense whatsoever.

    you seem confused between 'judge people by their enemies' and 'my enemy's enemy is my friend'.
     
    MadeInBedlam likes this.
  13. JuanTwoThree

    JuanTwoThree All Cretans are liars, Epiminides (Cretan)

    If you only looked at De Gaulle's enemies you might see him as being on the left's side (a friend). Far from it.
     
  14. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model every man and every woman is a star

    yes. but the fdr quote in the op is explicitly NOT about friends, but 'judge me by my enemies'

    it's 'if i've made these enemies i must be doing a good job'

    do you honestly not understand that?
     
  15. SpookyFrank

    SpookyFrank If it's alive, don't lick it.

    You can judge Makhno by his enemies because he fought everyone.
     
    Mordi and Pickman's model like this.
  16. Marshall Brown

    Marshall Brown New Member

    A phrase doesn't get popularity if it is not on point by the way
     
  17. JuanTwoThree

    JuanTwoThree All Cretans are liars, Epiminides (Cretan)

    Yes I do. But you're attaching far too much importance to a throwaway comment at the end. The fact that De Gaulle had a long list of enemies that were also enemies of the left, especially the French left, did not make him an ally of the left.

    You've linked it up with the FDR quote far more than I meant it to. Pretend it's not there!
     
  18. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model every man and every woman is a star

    as i say, threads work well when the op makes sense. and you ignore that among cdg's enemies were the left, so it's no surprise at all that he was not their ally.
     
  19. NoXion

    NoXion Keep an eye out for diamonds

    Not necessarily. Some phrases are just cliches.
     
    SpookyFrank and Marshall Brown like this.
  20. DotCommunist

    DotCommunist slowtime

    'the enemy of my enemy is not my friend, sometimes he is an embarrassment and a liability and I wish he were someone else's enemy'
     
  21. Marshall Brown

    Marshall Brown New Member

    like there is a phrase "Kiss and make up" has anyone heard this phrase? lol
     
  22. JuanTwoThree

    JuanTwoThree All Cretans are liars, Epiminides (Cretan)

    Did FDR mean judge him because he made lots of enemies or because of who the enemies were? I thought it was the latter but he may have just been talking about quantity, not quality, or lack of it.
     
  23. Yuwipi Woman

    Yuwipi Woman Whack-A-Mole Queen

    I don't think we can separate such statements from their context. This comment by Comey is probably the most elegant response possible to Trump's barrage of tweets. It refutes Trump's assault on his character, without getting personal himself. In many of these back and forth twitter wars no one ends up looking good. One of the reasons I stay away.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2019
    likesfish likes this.
  24. likesfish

    likesfish an angry pretend soldier shooting at seagulls

    Churchill on Hitler attacking Stalins Russia if her hilter invaded hell I'd find something complementary to say about the devil:).

    It may be useful sometimes to make common cause with people you fundementally disagree with but only to a certain extent. Isis might piss trump off but that's not really a vote in their favor.
     
    NoXion likes this.
  25. SpookyFrank

    SpookyFrank If it's alive, don't lick it.

    Did he actually say that or are you thinking of Ian McNeice in Doctor Who?
     

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