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Joy Division

NVP said:
Has anyone read Deborah Curtis' book, btw?

I've been meaning to read it for a while now.
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ive read it 'Touching from a distance' its on my desk right here.

Its pretty good but gives her point of view mainly. Depicts the bleakness of life with Ian in Manchester. She seemed totally ostracised from the band too, like he was a bit embarassed of her.
 
pk said:
I still prefer the Nine Inch Nails cover, it's just way more menacing.

And Martin Hannett was OK at producing punky guitar music but didn't really do the JD electronic experimentation justice.
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objection m'lud. I think it's that very factor that makes JD stuff still sound so utterly unique. hannett appeared to have been more into introduding an 'ambient' element into JD's music, almost as another instrument, than developing on the synth notes and motifs which even today is a fairly iconoclastic approach.

conversely, i kinda think his production of that ESG 7" sounds a bit flat.

BTW. i think New Order are thee best pop band EVER! saw them at stirling uni on their first ever tour after curtis died and loads of times since. sometimes they're pants; sometimes they're peerless but some truly AMAZING songs.
 
chico enrico said:
objection m'lud. I think it's that very factor that makes JD stuff still sound so utterly unique. hannett appeared to have been more into introduding an 'ambient' element into JD's music, almost as another instrument, than developing on the synth notes and motifs which even today is a fairly iconoclastic approach.
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I think Hannett was desperate to get into the samplist thing, trying to persuade Tony to buy an Emulator or a Fairlight CMI, but he'd spent the money on the Hacienda. So he'd overdub lots of stuff, and in doing so watered down the sound and dragged up the midrange on everything to compensate. The echo effects on some of the drums are truly amazing though.

BTW. i think New Order are thee best pop band EVER! saw them at stirling uni on their first ever tour after curtis died and loads of times since. sometimes they're pants; sometimes they're peerless but some truly AMAZING songs.
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Their early stuff was unbelievably good.

My pet theory is that whilst JD explored the futility of life, New Order embraced it. And I think Gillian Gilbert had much to do with their sound, she softened the edges and suddenly it all made sense, moving it away from the Curtis themes. Though I love Movement, better than any JD album even though it was meant to be the last JD album.

But when they hit the discos in NYC and started going down that road, all that staccato industrial funk with guitars, fucking beautiful.

Didnt enjoy much after Substance went out in '87, and certainly not that World In Motion dirge, but you can almost forgive them anything for tracks like Ceremony, Procession (my personal favourite), Mesh, Hurt... been listening to them for over 25 years and they still send shivers of joy down my spine.
 
pk said:
I think Hannett was desperate to get into the samplist thing, trying to persuade Tony to buy an Emulator or a Fairlight CMI, but he'd spent the money on the Hacienda. So he'd overdub lots of stuff, and in doing so watered down the sound and dragged up the midrange on everything to compensate. The echo effects on some of the drums are truly amazing though.



Their early stuff was unbelievably good.

My pet theory is that whilst JD explored the futility of life, New Order embraced it. And I think Gillian Gilbert had much to do with their sound, she softened the edges and suddenly it all made sense, moving it away from the Curtis themes. Though I love Movement, better than any JD album even though it was meant to be the last JD album.

But when they hit the discos in NYC and started going down that road, all that staccato industrial funk with guitars, fucking beautiful.

Didnt enjoy much after Substance went out in '87, and certainly not that World In Motion dirge, but you can almost forgive them anything for tracks like Ceremony, Procession (my personal favourite), Mesh, Hurt... been listening to them for over 25 years and they still send shivers of joy down my spine.
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hmmm. well, i suppose I always listen to drums before anything else so that's maybe the origin of my infatuation with Hannett's production on JD material, though I completely agree with you on all your other points.

and totally agree with you about when NO entered their 'dance phase' after hanging around the danceteria, with mark kamins*, benitez etc.

no 'thieves like us' , PK? that's one that really gives me the shivers. And 'temptation' is still pretty peerless on the rare occassions you hear someone mix it into a set :)

('atom rock' by quando quango -actually the original rather than the kamins remix - is an amazing track and one that rarely left my record box in all the years i was DJing)
 
As for New Order and tracks to give you shivers, it has to be 'In a Lonely Place'.

Was that written by Curtis?
 
Griff said:
As for New Order and tracks to give you shivers, it has to be 'In a Lonely Place'.

Was that written by Curtis?
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Yeah. Credited to 'Joy Division' on the B-Side of 'Ceremony', not New Order. An excerpt of it (with Curtis singing) turned up on the 'Heart And Soul' box set.
 
chico enrico said:
no 'thieves like us' , PK? that's one that really gives me the shivers. And 'temptation' is still pretty peerless on the rare occassions you hear someone mix it into a set :)
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I quite agree, both are sublime, but I played them to death when younger, so tend not to go for them as they're just too obvious, y'know?
 
I watched the doco last night. I thought it really showed up the flaws in control (i.e there was no depth, people just did things). Nice to see hooky not pretending to be a monster 24/7 and them as a group stopping the competion to be most manc accents ever. Stephen Morris was esp interesting and bullshit free.
 
moose said:
No one's returned the gravestone yet :hmm:
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I might try and chore Jim Morrison's next time I'm in Sacre Coeur... not because I'm a fan, just because its bound to do well on eBay, and piss off the weird fans.
 
I've never really fully taken in the lyrics to Love Will Tear Us Apart. They're fucking brilliant:

When the routine bites hard
And ambitions are low
And the resentment rides high
But emotions wont grow
And we're changing our ways,
Taking different roads
Then love, love will tear us apart again

Why is the bedroom so cold
Turned away on your side?
Is my timing that flawed,
Our respect run so dry?
Yet there's still this appeal
That we've kept through our lives
Love, love will tear us apart again

Do you cry out in your sleep
All my failings expose?
Get a taste in my mouth
As desperation takes hold
Is it something so good
Just cant function no more?
When love, love will tear us apart again
 
Hollis said:
Hadn't listened to Unknown Pleasures in ages - every bit as good as I remembered.
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It's an absolutely fantastic album, as is Closer. I can never decide which of the two I prefer.

If you're interested in the life of Ian Curtis and the story of Joy Division, Mick Middles's book Torn Apart: The Life of Ian Curtis is an excellent read. I would quite fancy reading it again except I lent it to my 23 year old nephew. It's a tribute to Joy Division's longevity and universality that people his age are still massively into them.
 
Never got it. I like Transmission and LWTUA obvs. I just find it turgid bollocks. I'm a huge New Order fan that is glad from a purely musical perspective about the Curtis tragedy.
 
Voley - Closer is nothing like as good as Unknown Pleasures - for me it is a poor second album, rushed out before the band had really had time to come up with a second album's worth of really good material. Sorry.
 
As said on another thread, I saw Joy Division in April-80 at the Rainbow supporting The Stranglers. Ian Curtis had a fit on stage & most people thought it was part of the act. Always liked them (but not that much.) I think it was maybe their last London gig but could be wrong cos I never really followed them that much. After its * release I fucking hated blue Monday. :D
 
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