Joint Statement Against the Israeli Airstrikes on the Gaza Strip...

[Grandma Death]

Panda:Again, no civility, no answer. I do want to add however, that his/her 3 questions were very popular subjects in Israel, at that time. Ergo, she/he, you or any other person who really cares could easily find them online.

Yes so easy that nobody could find them-not even you. Do you ever get bored of parroting the same line.

I myself offered to do just that, prior to my mom being called a cun$.

Lying again. You've been warned about this and you backed down-now you are peddling the same line.

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/search.php?searchid=5297727

Proof if ever there was needed that rach has once again been caught out lying.

Post reported.

 

[editor]

I myself offered to do just that, prior to my mom being called a cun$.

Could you show me this post please because there seems to be some dispute on whether it was actually said.

 

[Grandma Death]

Could you show me this post please because there seems to be some dispute on whether it was actually said.

Its doesnt exist. Just click on the search link above.

 

[rachamim18]

Chainsaw: Missiles and shells fired INTO Gaza are not primed for children or anyone else other than militants. They aim to neutralise militants and their equipment.If you take the time to look a week or two into the past, you might find the truck filled with shells that we hit.


Any Collateral Damage inflicted in Gaza lies with HAMAS and its cohort PIJ. IF you choose to use innocent non-combatants to hide behind, to hide your weaponry, and so forth, you need to examine yourself before pointing fingers at people who gave you complete control more than 2 years ago and whom you regularly bomb day in and day out.

"Advocate the killing of children.": I would like you to point that part out to me because one, it is not and has never been true, and two it seems to twist the rest of your logic into places I cannot make heads or tails of.

Cyberrose: It was the FIRST STEP towards statehood. You do not give complete independance to an entity that has no semblance of legal govenorship. HAMAS, repeating here, is illegal by both local and International Law.

And yet the keys were handed to them, as was most of the internal infrastructure, and many Israeli industries which were totally destroyed, out of pure hatred, in a matter of days.

"Israel still controls Gazan borders.": Just as in the beginning, its southern border is controlled by a third party. It Was Egypt but is now the EU in conjunction with Egypt and we all have seen how well that works...or is it the EU whom HAMAS hates as well?

"Egypt patrols on the say so of Israel.": Pure rubbish. We do have a liason as most bordering entities do but it is a far cry from controlling something. IF we had our hands in it that border would not have dissolved into utter chaos last week.

"Qassams because they are trapped in the biggest prison on Earth.": That might have sounded nice this week, but what about August,2005? Care to offer us some insight on that? Want to talk about the Hothouse Industry? Pleeeease. You are an apologetic and that is ok, but you need to remember some here do more than just call names. I have been there. I have seen the "biggest prison."

Is that what caused that burned girl to try and detonate the doctors treating her? The Israeli MDs who saved her life when her own doctors almost killer her? Your rationale makes no sense.

Gazans are not denied passage because they live under HAMAS but because they attack Israel - DAILY.

"Gaza has a coast and they should control it...": DO you REALLY wish to discuss this particular subject? You want me to list just what we have found coming through their ports?

 

[rachamim18]

Editor: I will be glad to if you enable me to scroll in the archives for more than the preceeding 6 months (or whatever the cutoff is). Furthermore, you might also explain what the difference would be when the same entity is calling me the same name? Show you where they called my mom, but then you ignore that they continue to call me the same thing. Funny. Anyway, as you will, just enable me.

 

[Grandma Death]

Editor: I will be glad to if you enable me to scroll in the archives for more than the preceeding 6 months (or whatever the cutoff is).

Well what do you think the cut off is liar boy? 6 months? 1 year? 2 Years?

Its quite simple:

Search this forum>Advanced Search>Key Word CUNT User Name> Grandma Death

6 threads. Earliest is August 2006....1 1/2 yrs ago. That not far enough for you? How about my FIRST post in the ME forums then?

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=3455798&postcount=40

AUG 05

This forum and my posts go back a bit further than 6 months.

Pathetic. You've been hiding behind this non existent ad hom attack on your mother for over a year now...and it's all designed to deflect from the fact you were caught out lying.

 

[nino_savatte]

Editor: I will be glad to if you enable me to scroll in the archives for more than the preceeding 6 months (or whatever the cutoff is). Furthermore, you might also explain what the difference would be when the same entity is calling me the same name? Show you where they called my mom, but then you ignore that they continue to call me the same thing. Funny. Anyway, as you will, just enable me.

ROTFLMAO!!!!!

 

[Grandma Death]

ROTFLMAO!!!!!

The fact that Ed can't provide the existent of these 'archived' threads will be yet another excuse for rach.

I can see it now:

'I was just about to provide this readily available evidence to Grandma after 18 months of his asking but he insulted my mother. Of course I cannot provide evidence of this slanderous accusation because Ed cannot/will not dig around the archives/cut off point which proves my accusation-so therefore I must be right'

 

[chainsaw cat]

Chainsaw: Missiles and shells fired INTO Gaza are not primed for children or anyone else other than militants. They aim to neutralise militants and their equipment.If you take the time to look a week or two into the past, you might find the truck filled with shells that we hit.

Bollocks. They are primed to explode when they hit the ground. It's the aiming that's the problem. If Hamas are hiding behind kids, you should either leave it or get more accurate.
I posted this quote on another thread: from Lt Col JP Vann US Army (in and of Vietnam) 'This is a political war and it calls for discrimination in killing. The best weapon for killing would be a knife, but I'm afraid we can't do it that way. The worst is an airplane. The next worst is artillery. Barring a knife, the best is a rifle — you know who you're killing'


Your forces use the indiscriminate nature of artillery and airstrikes as a terror weapon.

When you respond, please don't assume I know nothing of these methods. I'm a former soldier with service in Bosnia, NI, and the Gulf and I've seen plenty of mutilated corpses (actually, one is plenty....) including a large majority of civilians murdered by militias aiming to intimidate population.

That's what the IDF is doing and if you don't know it you are a fool.

If you do know it you are a cunt.

Killing noncombatants deliberately is always wrong.

Firing artillery/airstrikes into civilian areas means killing noncombatants deliberately.

Don't defend it.

QUOTE]

 

[Grandma Death]

Don't defend it.

You'll get used to it....that and his exaggerations and downright lies.

 

[CyberRose]

Cyberrose: It was the FIRST STEP towards statehood. You do not give complete independance to an entity that has no semblance of legal govenorship. HAMAS, repeating here, is illegal by both local and International Law.

Go back, read your post. You said "they are fightinf for independance and yet it was handed to them in August ,2005". No mention of "first steps". I also have no idea what "HAMAS, repeating here" is supposed to mean.

Anyway, the rest of your post is irrelevant seeing as you now admit that Gaza is neither free nor independent. The concerns you express in the rest of your post can only be addressed once Gaza is actually free and independent (along with the West Bank), and not "pretend independent" as it is in your mind

 

[ViolentPanda]

The fact that Ed can't provide the existent of these 'archived' threads will be yet another excuse for rach.

I can see it now:

'I was just about to provide this readily available evidence to Grandma after 18 months of his asking but he insulted my mother. Of course I cannot provide evidence of this slanderous accusation because Ed cannot/will not dig around the archives/cut off point which proves my accusation-so therefore I must be right'

That'll be about the strength of it.

 

[The Black Hand]

Fuck - this is depressing news.

 

[Dimitris]

I cannot get how somebody can claim that an airstrike in a populated area can only target militia.... This is as bollocks as were the "humanitarian bombings" of Iraq from Bush that only targeted specific buildings...

 

[Barking_Mad]

http://www.medialens.org/alerts/index.php

The horrific shooting of eight young people at a Jewish seminary in Jerusalem last Thursday was followed by saturation media coverage. International statesmen lined up with condemnations of the attack and condolences for the victims and their families.

Prime Minister Gordon Brown announced: "This is clearly an attempt to strike a blow at the very heart of the peace process.” (Jon Smith, Press Association, 'Brown: massacre "strikes at heart of peace"', March 7, 2008)

Foreign Secretary David Milliband described the slaughter as “an arrow aimed at the heart of the peace process so recently revived.” (Donald Macintyre and Eric Silver, 'Massacre in the heart of Jerusalem', The Independent, March 7, 2008)

The Guardian’s front page declared: "the descent into violence in the Middle East accelerated last night" in a "dramatic escalation". (Rory McCarthy, ‘Eight dead as gunman hits Jerusalem religious school’, The Guardian, March 7, 2008). A Daily Mirror headline read: ‘Kids Murdered In The Library’ (Allison Martin, March 7, 2008). The Telegraph asserted that the attack “is likely to be remembered as the moment the Middle East peace process died.” (Tim Butcher, ‘Hopes of peace in the Middle East are blown away in a hail of bullets’, Daily Telegraph, March 7, 2008)

The contrast to reactions to the killing of over 120 Palestinians, including many women and children, in occupied Gaza the previous week could hardly be more striking. On one day alone, 60 people died in a hail of Israeli firepower using F-16 planes, Apache helicopter gunships, tanks, armoured bulldozers and ground troops.

No Western leader was heard condemning the Israeli assault on Gaza as “an attempt to strike a blow at the very heart of the peace process.” To our knowledge, no reporter suggested that “the peace process” had now “died”. No headlines screamed of Palestinian babies “murdered” in their beds. In short, news reports from the Gazan bloodbath typically lacked the anguished details and tone that suffused the reporting from Jerusalem less than a week later.

Nor was there the same heightened pitch and intensity of news coverage following Israel’s deadly ‘incursion’ into Gaza in mid-January. 17 Palestinians were killed in one day, and around 50 injured, while President Bush was visiting the region. Mahmoud Abbas, the Palestinian president, said:

"What happened today is a massacre, a slaughter against the Palestinian people.

"Our people cannot keep silent over these massacres. These massacres cannot bring peace." (Al-Jazeera, ‘Abbas: Israeli raid “a massacre” ’, January 15, 2008; http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/ exeres/0787158A-D180-44F4-9327- 7BE8DBBB197D.htm)

But for the Western media the massacres that really matter, the ones which “strike a blow at the very heart of the peace process”, are those inflicted on Israelis.

 

[durruti02]

February 29, 2008 Clip No. 1710

Hamas MP Fathi Hammad: We Used Women and Children as Human Shields

Following are excerpts from a speech delivered by Hamas MP Fathi Hammad, which aired on Al-Aqsa TV on February 29, 2008.

Fathi Hammad: [The enemies of Allah] do not know that the Palestinian people has developed its [methods] of death and death-seeking. For the Palestinian people, death has become an industry, at which women excel, and so do all the people living on this land. The elderly excel at this, and so do the mujahideen and the children. This is why they have formed human shields of the women, the children, the elderly, and the mujahideen, in order to challenge the Zionist bombing machine. It is as if they were saying to the Zionist enemy: "We desire death like you desire life."

http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/1710.htm

 

[KeyboardJockey]

I disagree with the bombing of Gaza. It is pointless, ineffective and counterproductive. It also hands propaganda victories to the terrorists of Hamas who site their missile launchers in areas where there are innocent civilians.

If you want to deal with Hamas then you can't do it by bombing from the air you need ground troops, armour and a plan to keep civilians as safe as possible while operations go on.

 

[Grandma Death]

February 29, 2008 Clip No. 1710

Hamas MP Fathi Hammad: We Used Women and Children as Human Shields

Following are excerpts from a speech delivered by Hamas MP Fathi Hammad, which aired on Al-Aqsa TV on February 29, 2008.

Fathi Hammad: [The enemies of Allah] do not know that the Palestinian people has developed its [methods] of death and death-seeking. For the Palestinian people, death has become an industry, at which women excel, and so do all the people living on this land. The elderly excel at this, and so do the mujahideen and the children. This is why they have formed human shields of the women, the children, the elderly, and the mujahideen, in order to challenge the Zionist bombing machine. It is as if they were saying to the Zionist enemy: "We desire death like you desire life."

http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/1710.htm

Disgraceful

 

[nino_savatte]

Ah, but is this Hamas MP speaking figuratively about "human shields"?

 

[durruti02]

Disgraceful

tbh i am not sure either way ..

 

[CyberRose]

Ah, but is this Hamas MP speaking figuratively about "human shields"?

Lol! Would you be as quick to give an Israel the benefit of the doubt should they say similar?!

 

[Grandma Death]

tbh i am not sure either way ..

This is no conventional war and I understand Hamas don't have the ability to defend themselves or the people of Gaza from a traditional 'army base'-but to actually suggest in words that its a deliberate tactic they employ is IMO outrageous if thats what they are really saying. I'm sorry but I cannot defend those words.

 

[durruti02]

This is no conventional war and I understand Hamas don't have the ability to defend themselves or the people of Gaza from a traditional 'army base'-but to actually suggest in words that its a deliberate tactic they employ is IMO outrageous if thats what they are really saying. I'm sorry but I cannot defend those words.

yes i accept that but as israel has become brutal so has hamas etc ... to me it is indicative more of the whole mess of nationalism and glbal power games that dictate life in palestine

 

[nino_savatte]

yes i accept that but as israel has become brutal so has hamas etc ... to me it is indicative more of the whole mess of nationalism and glbal power games that dictate life in palestine

You're missing the point. The force that Israel uses against the Palestinians is not only excessive but is legitimated through Washington and its allies.

This all began when Orde Wingate urged, aided and assisted the nascent Israeli terrorists to carry out acts of brutality against the indigenous populations. While two wrongs don';t make a right, it is important to understand the Hamas is a product of both Sykes-Picot and the continued aggression shown against the Palestinians by Israel.

 

[nino_savatte]

tbh i am not sure either way ..

I've heard this sort of thing before.

Have you converted to Eustonism, durutti?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Lol! Would you be as quick to give an Israel the benefit of the doubt should they say similar?!

I may be mis-remembering, but weren't there several occasions in the months after HAMAS won the Gaza elections, when large crowds spontaneously assembled at strategic points when it was suspected that there might be an Israeli air attack or ground assault?

 

[durruti02]

You're missing the point. The force that Israel uses against the Palestinians is not only excessive but is legitimated through Washington and its allies.

This all began when Orde Wingate urged, aided and assisted the nascent Israeli terrorists to carry out acts of brutality against the indigenous populations. While two wrongs don';t make a right, it is important to understand the Hamas is a product of both Sykes-Picot and the continued aggression shown against the Palestinians by Israel.

yes i accept that totally .. my point re palestine is that both zionism and hamas/Hizbollah have grown out of oppression and that BOTH the jews and palestinians are being USED by global players in a geopolitical resource war .. yes we need to highlight israels wrongs but we must understand the context and ALSO that actually HERE in the west it is our system that controls this and that probably the solution lies in US here changing power ..

 

[durruti02]

I've heard this sort of thing before.

Have you converted to Eustonism, durutti?

he he

( i do not even know nor can be bothered to check exactly what that is but i can be sure i am not .. is it right wing of labour left?) )

 

[nino_savatte]

he he

( i do not even know nor can be bothered to check exactly what that is but i can be sure i am not .. is it right wing of labour left?) )

You know what I mean, you're just playing thick (no, you're like that normally )
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euston_Manifesto

You like Harry's Place too, don't you?

 

[nino_savatte]

yes i accept that totally .. my point re palestine is that both zionism and hamas/Hizbollah have grown out of oppression and that BOTH the jews and palestinians are being USED by global players in a geopolitical resource war .. yes we need to highlight israels wrongs but we must understand the context and ALSO that actually HERE in the west it is our system that controls this and that probably the solution lies in US here changing power ..

"Global players"? If there are any others apart from the US and UK, then please list them.

Aye. you've swallowed the Euston Manifesto, all right.

jews and palestinians

I hope that you're not going to suggest that Palestinians are all Muslim. But I see that you're using the word "Jew" as if it means the same thing as "Israeli". It is not. But then, I suspect, that you may have a problem with the word "Zionist" too.