Johnson ahead

[KeyboardJockey]

No-one's arguing that Ken is in any way honest or unselfish, but he's been good for London and Boris Johnson would be a massive, massive step in the wrong direction.

All of your points may be perfectly accurate, but do you really, truly believe that Boris Johnson wouldn't be way worse!?

I haven't seen any huge benefits for London to be honest. The tubes are still shit, the buses are slightly better but could be better, he has surrounded himself with yes men and dodgy cronies, shown appalling errors of judgement and been arrogant and dismissive of the concerns of the little person.

Boris is a bit of a joke but there is a strong chance that a BoJo mayoralty may be th echance to increase the power and influence of the Assembly which I believe in and Boris has said he wants.

 

[maes]

Nah there are personal 'ways and means ' around that. Its the arrogance and the waste and the piss poor judgement on the part of Livingstone that makes me want him gone.

What do you mean by this? What jugements has he made that you think are poor, how is he wasteful?

I think you've fallen hook line and sinker for BJprop, big brother style adhominem politics. Arrogance ffs? Even if 'ken' was, why would that even be a problem? Since when do we have to like people for them to be good leaders?

 

[Matt S]

Yes, because I'm sure that once Boris becomes Mayor, he will increase the powers of the body whose sole purpose is to scrutinise him and which contains a majority of his political opponents.

Or, umm, not.

Matt

 

[spanglechick]

If BJ wins I think I'm leaving london for good, I don't feel as at home there as I once did.

I found myself thinking this yesterday. I won't - i love this city and i'll continue to love it... but i just can't get my head round the place being overseen by some vague, sort of affable, posh tory boy from Henley. What does he actually understand about this city?
Which Londoners exactly does he relate to?

It's terrifying.

Surely sod all these second choices - anyone who doesn't want BJ as mayor has to vote for Ken. First choice. It's the only way we stand a chance of not getting Boris as our mayor. And we all have to actually get out and vote.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

What do you mean by this? What jugements has he made that you think are poor, how is he wasteful?

Not campaigning against Londoners having to pay for the olympic disaster, throwing money at the Lee Jasper fiasco, beauracratic waste in city hall etc etc.

I think you've fallen hook line and sinker for BJprop, big brother style adhominem politics. Arrogance ffs? Even if 'ken' was, why would that even be a problem? Since when do we have to like people for them to be good leaders?

But Livingstone IS NOT a good leader.

 

[Matt S]

spanglechick,

>Surely sod all these second choices - anyone who doesn't want BJ as mayor >has to vote for Ken. First choice. It's the only way we stand a chance of >not getting Boris as our mayor.

HOw do you work that out? The entire point of the voting system is to avoid choices like that...

Unless you think Boris is going to get over 50% of first preferences?? IN which case we are screwed anyway.

Matt

 

[poster342002]

he's been good for London

We keep on hearing this, yet London still seems the increasingly expensive, overcrowded dump of a rich-kids-playground - while the rest of us find it harder and harder to get by.

 

[ChrisFilter]

But Livingstone IS NOT a good leader.

But Johnson will be 6 billion times worse for christ's sake!!!!

 

[poster342002]

And all these hysterical predictiors of apolcalypse if Ken looses do themselves - or their idol - no favours, tbh. Nor does screeching "don't these ungrateful idiots know when they've got it good? How can they even think of voting him out!?"

 

[bluestreak]

If enough Londoners actually vote for the cunt, I don't know what I will do, to be quite honest. Probably I will stand there for a good week saying "Boris Johnson? Boris Fucking Johnson?", mixed in with "what the fuck were you thinking?" And then, well, I don't know, I'll play it by ear.

Pretty sure he won't win though.

Yeah, this. I simply refuse to accept that people would be that stupid. I mean, London has been a much better place to live since Livingstone took over, imagine actually WANTING to turn the clock back fifteen years? It's madness, utter madness.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

But Johnson will be 6 billion times worse for christ's sake!!!!

So I've got the choice between the shit leader I already have or someone who is likely to be shit who I don't know. difficult question really isn't it. We've had two terms of Livingstone shit maybe its time for a change. Its not the sort of change I would want but its not as bad as some make out.

My hope is that Boris fucks up enough for the Assembly to start standing up for itself.

Mind you if NL do badly in the assembly we will end up with an assembly of Tories with some Lib Dems who are liable to vote with the tories plus a couple of greens and one fash. Whatever you do it is undeifying,

 

[KeyboardJockey]

And all these hysterical predictiors of apolcalypse if Ken looses do themselves - or their idol - no favours, tbh. Nor does screeching "don't these ungrateful idiots know when they've got it good? How can they even think of voting him out!?"

It does smack of 'we know better than you so shut up and vote as you are told'.

 

[poster342002]

Yeah, this. I simply refuse to accept that people would be that stupid. I mean, London has been a much better place to live since Livingstone took over, imagine actually WANTING to turn the clock back fifteen years? It's madness, utter madness.

It's got better if you've got money and like overcrowding. Otherwise it's been the same as ever.

 

[g force]

We keep on hearing this, yet London still seems the increasingly expensive, overcrowded dump of a rich-kids-playground - while the rest of us find it harder and harder to get by.

Ken has very little to do with the wider economy, council tax or energy bills really though does he? He can't stop rich Russians and Arabs coming over and buying up housing stock, unless he fancies destroying a global financial centre that contributes huge sums to GDP.

Shitty sitaution I agree but the alternative of a Tory boy like BoJo isn't any better.

 

[tarannau]

What and the buses havent got better and more frequent then, with costs far more stable than they have been in the past. Compare the rises in bus fares with those from the private rail franchises for example.

Whether or not opponenet of Ken want to admit or not, the congestion charge and the increase in bus lanes has markedly improved public transport.

 

[bluestreak]

It's got better if you've got money and like overcrowding. Otherwise it's been the same as ever.

Not at all. I don't have any money either. But at the very least the tube and buses are better, the transport infastructure is better, the congestion charge is better, and the random silly shit in the street is better.

Most of the major problems with London are ones that the mayor can't do anything about and are caused by local or national government.

He took fighting PFI to the High Court, fought it every step of the way and had it forced up us. As far as I'm concerned that shows the sort of balls that we want from a politician.

Johnson will be about cutting costs or raising prices, PFI-ing everything that can be PFId, removing budgets from arts and community groups, selling off London to rich mates.

If that's the least-worst option to you, you're a fucking nob.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

What and the buses havent got better and more frequent then, with costs far more stable than they have been in the past. Compare the rises in bus fares with those from the private rail franchises for example.

Whether or not opponenet of Ken want to admit or not, the congestion charge and the increase in bus lanes has markedly improved public transport.

Now that sounds like a person who isn't a regular traveller on the Victoria Line of an evening.

 

[poster342002]

Ken has very little to do with the wider economy, council tax or energy bills really though does he? He can't stop rich Russians and Arabs coming over and buying up housing stock, unless he fancies destroying a global financial centre that contributes huge sums to GDP.

Shitty sitaution I agree but the alternative of a Tory boy like BoJo isn't any better.

It actually shows that the Mayor has little powers. However, Livingstone can't even bring himself to campaign that the things in your post above are "a bad thing". Especially the "global finance empire" thing - a bloated monster that brings wealth only to itself and yuppies and which seriously needs it's winged clipped.

 

[Oswaldtwistle]

I mean, London has been a much better place to live since Livingstone took over

I'm far from sure that is true. Livingstone has largely been successful because he has distanced himself from New Labour (whilst benefiting from their support) and has constantly banged on about the failings of the 80s/90s Tory government nationally.

His actual achivements have been pitifully thin on the ground.

 

[poster342002]

Not at all. I don't have any money either. But at the very least the tube and buses are better, the transport infastructure is better, the congestion charge is better, and the random silly shit in the street is better.

I can honestly say I've noticed no improvement at all in my experience. I've just seen loads of stuff saying it's got better.

 

[tarannau]

Erm, I live about 5 mins from Brixton tube, where the Victoria line terminates - I have been known to catch it, as I suspect Bluestreak has.

Still, love the fact that it's Kens fault that maintenance on the line is necessary. It's there no end to your desperate justifications for voting Johnson - as I say if you want tio vote for a Tory just do it. But don't pretend that Johnson would be a better or more ethical choice for wporking class Londoners - it's plainly guff.

After all, this is the same Johnson who comes up with fatuous soundbites about bringing back the Routemaster at a cost of £8 million. Only about 100million out Boris - yep he's the realistic man with his finger on the pulse, entirely capable of running the city

 

[poster342002]

Now that sounds like a person who isn't a regular traveller on the Victoria Line of an evening.

Or anyone sitting in a bus going nowhere in an "imaginary" (statistically-proven not to exist ) traffic jam in central London.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

I can honestly say I've noticed no improvement at all in my experience. I've just seen loads of stuff saying it's got better.

Yup there is plenty of 'things are getting better' propaganda from Livingstone but not much else. Those on here who seem to think Livingstone is some sort of saviour of the city and shout 'bus lanes' fail to remember that we have had bus lanes for far longer than we have had Livingslime.

I have no problem with sensible use of bus lanes.

It does make me wonder if there are posters on here who either work for city hall or benefit from Livingstones largess with public money who don't really care about Londoners at all only about their own wallets. The vitriol aimed at anti Livingstone comments makes me think that this could be one explanation.

 

[poster342002]

Most of the major problems with London are ones that the mayor can't do anything about and are caused by local or national government.

I'd have more respect for him if he made more of this fact. Instead we just get relentless propogander insisting everythings' getting better and better.

 

[rutabowa]

if i find out anyone i know has voted for boris johnson i will simply blank them from my life as they are not people i want to be around.

 

[tarannau]

I can honestly say I've noticed no improvement at all in my experience. I've just seen loads of stuff saying it's got better.

So things like the much more regular services, the new routes (eg the 133/333 split in Brixton) the availabilty checkers, the much improved nightbus provision, the free transport to youths, improved journey times through more bus lanes, the fact that fares have been stable or decreased compared to other forms of transport have alll passed you by?

You don't catch the bus very much do you? I'm a cynical bod, but the improvements have been marked over recent years

 

[poster342002]

Yup there is plenty of 'things are getting better' propaganda from Livingstone but not much else. Those on here who seem to think Livingstone is some sort of saviour of the city

I read on another site that most of what Ken's supporters use to defend him seems little more than an uncritical regurgitation of his own press office material rather than anything analytical.

 

[Mitre10]

No different from the vacuous, clucking Fulham based muppets at work who'll be voting for 'Good old Boris!' because they don't have a clue. It's just selfishness pure and simple.

Its democracy if Boris wins.

You think its selfishness because they don't agree with your point of view.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

I read on another site that most of what Ken's supporters use to defend him seems little more than an uncritical regurgitation of his own press office material rather than anything analytical.

Hmmmm I'll look out for that. There does seem to be a correlation between what the Livingstone worshippers say and what is coming out of Livingstones propaganda machine at City Hall.

May be worth monitoring.

Maybe after a term of Boris we can start thinking about how to democratically, effectively and fairly run London.

Once the ghost of Livingslime is exorcised maybe things will get better.

 

[g force]

if i find out anyone i know has voted for boris johnson i will simply blank them from my life as they are not people i want to be around.

This is also going to be my approach esp if their only justification was "he'll be a laugh"