John Pilger - The War on democracy - ITV Monday 11pm.

[mhwfc]

Fair dos to ITV for having the balls to show this, the BBC wouldn't dare these days, and Channel 4 rarely show anything challenging though their news is better than the other networks. Hopefully they'll repeat it at a more civilised hour on one of their Freeview channels, Outfoxed pops up ocasionally on ITV4.

 

[Doctor Carrot]

What's your beef? Moore's the bomb.

He's alright but it's fucking annoying how he's become somewhat a cliche, even more annoying when you're trying to explain to someone that it's dangerous to have one man controlling vast sections of the media (Murdoch), only for them to turn around and say "Stop spouting Michael Moore shit", happened to me the other day and it pissed me off and I didn't even get that from Moore, amazingly I formed my own opinion.

The Pilger film was brilliant, I learnt alot from it and found it particularly inspiring seeing people in their 80s learning to read and write for the first time thanks to Chavez's reforms.

 

[London_Calling]

Few things:

• It is available on Pirate Bay as a torrent
  
  
• There’s a 2 minute trailer on YouTube
  
  
• I was curious about the extent to which ITV are willing to buy-in current affair credibility; fwiw, the project was funded in the UK by Granada and a company called Youngblood.
  
  
• It’s intended to be one of these new breed of cinematic documentaries (a la Michael Moore) and so is currently in the middle of a limited UK cinema release – Pilger was at a Q&A at the Clapham Picture House last Sunday
  
  
• Pilger writing: The rising of Latin America - the genesis of 'The War On Democracy'

 

[poster342002]

Will this be repeated at any point (either terrestrial or cable)?

Errr.. does anyone know?

 

[Doctor Carrot]

Errr.. does anyone know?

No idea, but i'm sure you'll be able to find a torrent for it somewhere.

 

[poster342002]

No idea, but i'm sure you'll be able to find a torrent for it somewhere.

What's a torrent?

 

[Donna Ferentes]

It's a very fast section of a river.

 

[poster342002]

It's a very fast section of a river.

 

[Celt]

I watched it and it was good to be reminded of the truth behind the sanatised version of events that our government and washington spew forth.

It was a shame they managed to show it at 11 pm on a Monday though, I hope its reshown at a time when more can see it.

 

[London_Calling]

Phew, saw this yesterday and it left me cold. All well and good if his idea was to preach to the converted – who would know the ground anyway – but if he wanted to impress the unknowing and undecided I think he failed badly; he’s just a poor advocate.

Much of the first half covered the Chavez coup and Pilger uses the same approach and often the same footage as the Irish guys did in ‘The Revolution will not be Televised’ – but less effectively. I also got embarrassed when Chavez was talking in interview with him (speaking in Spanish) and Pilger nodded his head as if he understood the first word.

I thought the whole had far too many unsubstantiated generalisations to even begin to persuade. I also thought the style was desperately tired and totally 1980s ‘World in Action’.

Given the funding for the project, the ex-CIA interviewees, Chavez himself . . . it felt like a huge missed opportunity to get the message out there to the unaware.

 

[likesfish]

I loved the bit in the Chavez documentary when the coup leaders kept on chavez old unit as palace guards
egged on by the crowd nicked the whole lot no neo con experiment for you guys

 

[billy_bob]

Fuck me, if ever there was a man who was wrong about just about everything it's John Pilger. He's a prize berk.

Better a prize berk than a.......git

 

[JoePolitix]

He's alright but it's fucking annoying how he's become somewhat a cliche, even more annoying when you're trying to explain to someone that it's dangerous to have one man controlling vast sections of the media (Murdoch), only for them to turn around and say "Stop spouting Michael Moore shit", happened to me the other day and it pissed me off and I didn't even get that from Moore, amazingly I formed my own opinion.

Yeah, but that''ll happen to any figure on the left who gains a decent hearing amongst the population.

Micheal Moore is the most successful documentary film maker in history and he also happens to be leftwing. A good thing from a leftist perspective one would have thought.

Yet such is the self hating nature of some on the left that this becomes a negative. "h n, he's communicating to the workers, peasants and intellectuals via the medium of cinema. The betrayal comrades, the betrayal..." etc*

*Not a criticism of you Smoky btw

 

[rekil]

Chris Morris on Michael Moore.

'His tone is That's Life,' he says. 'I made up a corrupt English businessman with a totally ludicrous name who had sacked all his staff and then methodically patrolled local schools, carrying a big banner that read "I sacked your Dad because he's totally fucking useless". And Moore is such a knee-jerk that he's saying, [he adopts a perfect Moore whine] ' "You know what, we've gotta get this guy. Why doesn't anyone do this in Britain?" And I said, well there is a guy called Mark Thomas who also goes around and bullies receptionists. And Moore goes, "NOT THOMAS. You need a guy who really kicks ass." '

 

[JoePolitix]

Chris Morris on Michael Moore.

Whilst I love Chris Morris's comedy it can hardly be described as leftist (it often has a distinctly elitist and snobbish ring to it) and having a pop at Mark Thomas for supposedly "bullying receptionists" is a bit rich considering some of the antics Morris engages in.

 

[London_Calling]

Micheal Moore is the most successful documentary film maker in history and he also happens to be leftwing. A good thing from a leftist perspective one would have thought.

Is he "leftwing". Really?

I don't know if these labels are terribly helpful, especially in the USA, but anywhere really. Better surely to address specific issues which is what, though I don't know much about him, I believe Moore does.

You really don't need to be 'left' to oppose most of what's happening in the USA. Michael Moore "leftwing" . . .

 

[JoePolitix]

Is he "leftwing". Really?

I don't know if these labels are terribly helpful, especially in the USA, but anywhere really. Better surely to address specific issues which is what, though I don't know much about him, I believe Moore does.

You really don't need to be 'left' to oppose most of what's happening in the USA. Michael Moore "leftwing" . . .

I think Moore describes himself as a liberal who are also refered to as the "left" in an American context. To me his films have had a consistant leftwing theme in that they have challanged socio-economic inequalities and sided with the poor against the rich.

My point was that many on the left seem to dislike Micheal Moore which is ironic given that his leftwing message is very popular in an age where leftwing ideas don't often get a look in.

 

[London_Calling]

Like I say, I don't know much about him, but i wouldn't have thought him "leftwing", not by a pretty huge distance.

 

[JoePolitix]

Well that's a matter of definition I suppose.

 

[Barking_Mad]

Chris Morris on Michael Moore.

Seems Morris doesnt do irony as well as he does satire.

 

[Dillinger4]

I think Moore describes himself as a liberal who are also refered to as the "left" in an American context.

I think this is probably why the 'liberal left' in the US are also an enormous failure.