John McDonnell and community organising

[glenquagmire]

Did you read the bit I quoted?

Neither I nor John McDonnell nor anyone else I know on the left has "worked for" that agenda.

Can you get your head round the idea of being a member of a political party but not supporting everything they do?

 

[Sue]

Which bit of 'Glen is an active member of a political party but has not worked for their agenda' don't I understand..?

 

[glenquagmire]

Is it really that difficult to understand that you would be a member of a party but not actively campaign for people who don't support the parts of the programme which you support? There are plenty who do.

 

[Sue]

From what I call recall of our previous discussion about this, you didn't seem to agree with most of the Labour manifesto.

So what would Labour have to do/come up with for you to leave the Labour party?

 

[glenquagmire]

As stated above, break the link with the trade unions.

 

[Spion]

As stated above, break the link with the trade unions.

Are you part of a party that you do agree with as well? To my mind being wedded to the LP is as bad as never working in/with it. To do so or not really depends on what's to be gained, surely?

 

[Sue]

Really? So they can do whatever they like apart from that, but as long as they keep their links with the trade unions, you'll remain a member...?

 

[glenquagmire]

Pretty much. It's the only hope for progressive politics in Westminster.

Not a big chance, but the only one there is.

 

[Sue]

Pretty much. It's the only hope for progressive politics in Westminster.

Glen, that's as sad as anything I've read on here.

 

[poster342002]

Pretty much. It's the only hope for progressive politics in Westminster.

Not a big chance, but the only one there is.

What would they have to do (whilst maintaining the union link) before you gave up on them? Seriously - just how low do they have to stoop and how rancid the barrel they have to scrape before you decide that the nominal link with the unions no longer justifies having anything to do with them?

 

[glenquagmire]

Glen, that's as sad as anything I've read on here.

Sad but true.

I'm sure poster would have at least as depressing an interpretation of the situation as me but as I've got him on ignore, I'll never find out.

 

[poster342002]

Sad but true.

I'm sure poster would have at least as depressing an interpretation of the situation as me but as I've got him on ignore, I'll never find out.

No idea what I've done to warrant that, but there you go ...

 

[glenquagmire]

I just viewed that one as it looked like a reply.

Nothing personal poster, and I've agreed with you on several occasions in the past, but after the 50th time of reading a generalised denunciation of "The Left" and yet another diatribe about how terrible things are yet we have our heads in the sand, it just got too much.

You speak much truth but it's too repetitive for me I'm afraid, like a automated doom-posting machine. I'm sure you'll get over it.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

As stated above, break the link with the trade unions.

Break with those that fund them in return for being shat on?

not very likely.

Your notion that Labour in Westminster is "progessive" is insulting to the intelligence. Shame on your party that even the Libdems are more progressive. Perhaps you can explain to anyone naive enough to take notice how privatisation mania, war and ID card authoritarianism are "progressive". To be fair though, defending corrupt arms dealers from the law is well progressive.

 

[glenquagmire]

Can you show me where I wrote that?

 

[nightbreed]

From what I call recall of our previous discussion about this, you didn't seem to agree with most of the Labour manifesto.

So what would Labour have to do/come up with for you to leave the Labour party?

Most Labour lefts I know dont agree with the manifesto. Havent done for years. McDonnell doesnt agree with the manifesto. Thats why he is looking towards working with pressure groups outside the LP. Good for him.

I would leave the LP after the Unions have dissaffiliated, collectively and that would be after workers/members reclaimed the unions as organisations that fought back against employers.

Until then I suppose I could leave. The problem with that there is no where to go apart from hanging around with the 200'000 odd ex-LP members who have left since 1997 and dropped out of politics altogether.

Bit depressing really.

It really fucks people off that the Labour left wont leave and join Respect(s), cnwp or the ssp/solidarity. I wonder why that is and what is there to inspire the labour left to join.

(puts on helmet and takes cover.......)

 

[Sue]

Nightbreed, I really don't understand why people would be part of an organisation when they disagree with its policies. It seems masochist in the extreme. I also find the whole union links thing very strange -- reading on one page of my union magazine about the fight against PFI, for example, then reading on the next how fab Labour is. Talk about self-delusion.

I also think the idea that John McDonnell is some kind of good and principled bloke laughable. He represents a party he doesn't agree with and is happy to continue doing so? If he had any principles, he'd leave the Labour party (he's not doing very well with this reclaiming it thing after all).

I also think that it's genuinely sad that you won't leave because it's better to be part of something shit than part of nothing at all. I'm not surprised you find that depressing...

 

[nightbreed]

Nightbreed, I really don't understand why people would be part of an organisation when they disagree with its policies. It seems masochist in the extreme. I also find the whole union links thing very strange -- reading on one page of my union magazine about the fight against PFI, for example, then reading on the next how fab Labour is. Talk about self-delusion.

I also think the idea that John McDonnell is some kind of good and principled bloke laughable. He represents a party he doesn't agree with and is happy to continue doing so? If he had any principles, he'd leave the Labour party (he's not doing very well with this reclaiming it thing after all).

I also think that it's genuinely sad that you won't leave because it's better to be part of something shit than part of nothing at all. I'm not surprised you find that depressing...

Sue , not really. Life is depressing where ever you are but I try to cheer myself now and then.