John Hutton to take benefits away from "hardcore unemployed"

[Paulie Tandoori]

100,000 Hardcore i would like to know where that came from.

12% of current jsa claimants have been on the benefit for six out of the last 7 years, out of a total claimant count of 950,000 = 114,000. That's your 'hardcore' apparently.

Rather ignores the fact that there are 4.6 million people without qualifications in this country and a further 1.7 million with qualifications below level 2. So skilling them up should be a priority, not threatening their benefits imo.

Perhaps rather than blaming claimants, Mr Hutton should be pointing to failures in the educational system over the past 10 years, as it has clearly been operating a "can teach won't teach" policy?

 

[tbaldwin]

Rather ignores the fact that there are 4.6 million people without qualifications in this country and a further 1.7 million with qualifications below level 2. So skilling them up should be a priority, not threatening their benefits imo.

Do you mean like NVQs the No Value Qualification?
People need work experience and decent references more than qualifications for lots of jobs...

 

[ViolentPanda]

12% of current jsa claimants have been on the benefit for six out of the last 7 years, out of a total claimant count of 950,000 = 114,000. That's your 'hardcore' apparently.

Rather ignores the fact that there are 4.6 million people without qualifications in this country and a further 1.7 million with qualifications below level 2. So skilling them up should be a priority, not threatening their benefits imo.

Now if only the govt could get over it's addiction to farming out some of the contracts for "re-skilling" people to cowboys, incompetents and criminals.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Do you mean like NVQs the No Value Qualification?
People need work experience and decent references more than qualifications for lots of jobs...

But often they can't even get their foot in the door without basic qualifications.

Vicious circle.

 

[tbaldwin]

But often they can't even get their foot in the door without basic qualifications.

Vicious circle.

Sometimes yes, depends on the type of job and the type of company...A lot of people get NVQs and find out that what they really needed was work experience.

 

[exosculate]

12% of current jsa claimants have been on the benefit for six out of the last 7 years, out of a total claimant count of 950,000 = 114,000. That's your 'hardcore' apparently.

Rather ignores the fact that there are 4.6 million people without qualifications in this country and a further 1.7 million with qualifications below level 2. So skilling them up should be a priority, not threatening their benefits imo.

Perhaps rather than blaming claimants, Mr Hutton should be pointing to failures in the educational system over the past 10 years, as it has clearly been operating a "can teach won't teach" policy?

If you have ever been to a New Deal group*. I have sat in on a few. You will see that alot of the so called hardcore unemployed include people who.

1) Look like they have not slept.
2) Smell appaulingly and clearly have not washed in a while.
3) Have dirty clothes
4) Are extremely illiterate and poor in general communication abilities
5) Talk to themselves

One gentleman came in wearing a shower cap on his head, plastic bags around his boots and what can only be described as a fishermans rain mac. When he sat down he exposed his vegetables to the world through the gap that formed in his clothing and the fact he was not wearing any underwear.

I would say some of these people need help not scorn and are pretty much unemployable in there present state.

The last example is not uncommon in watered down form either.

The private sector companies that run these things know all this only too well.

*- New Deal is where private sector companies attempt to get those who are long term unemployed back to work( for those that don't know about it).

 

[Azrael]

So you'd support confiscatory taxation on the inheritance of capital, and of all unearned income (usurious income), then?

Not being big on Leviticus I've no problem with usury (unless it becomes our leading domestic "product" ) but it has been argued that a 100% inheritance tax on capital is the only way to achieve true meriocracy.

Sounds a bit idealist to me, but worth considering. Perhaps levy the tax if young Tristian is caught within a mile of Newmarket.

 

[tbaldwin]

*- New Deal is where private sector companies attempt to get those who are long term unemployed back to work( for those that don't know about it).

And where numeous agencies make up stats to ensure they get as much public money as possible........

 

[exosculate]

And where numeous agencies make up stats to ensure they get as much public money as possible........

Everything is about fiddling performance indicators/statistics these days.

Reality of the enormous spaces in-between these meaningless stats is completely ignored.

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

Everything is about fiddling performance indicators/statistics these days.

Reality of the enormous spaces in-between these meaningless stats is completely ignored.

This is where i think the government is a bit bonkers tho. With statistics, meaningless as they may be on the one hand, they also can be used to demonstrate that, for eg, since coming to power, labour have managed to reduce relative child poverty and pensioner poverty, especially compared to the freefall disaster that was occuring under the tories for both those groups of people. (Not for disabled adults, unfortunately, who find themselves more deeply entrenched in relative poverty).

And they could (and do) manipulate the stats around the 'success' of the New Deal to show again their success in reducing youth unemployment. And that these kind of things are why it is a good idea to redistribute taxes amongst the population for positive outcomes. But they don't, they come up with this 'scrounger claimant' message that is destructive and, as you note, quite wrong in many many cases.

 

[magneze]

Are there any statistics on how much the so-called "hard core unemployed" cost per year?

 

[Jonti]

Not being big on Leviticus I've no problem with usury (unless it becomes our leading domestic "product" ) but it has been argued that a 100% inheritance tax on capital is the only way to achieve true meriocracy.

Sounds a bit idealist to me, but worth considering. Perhaps levy the tax if young Tristian is caught within a mile of Newmarket.

After the revolution the wealthy will have to work, eh?
OK, fair enough. Let me know when it happens and I'll knuckle down too, OK

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Are there any statistics on how much the so-called "hard core unemployed" cost per year?

If you simply gave them 50k each a year a quick calculation suggests that it'd cost 5 billion, which is probably a lot less than it costs to be nasty to them. Although obviously the being nasty to them part keeps a lot of ministers, civil servants and tabloid journalists in work.

 

[magneze]

If you simply gave them 50k each a year a quick calculation suggests that it'd cost 5 billion, which is probably a lot less than it costs to be nasty to them. Although obviously the being nasty to them part keeps a lot of ministers, civil servants and tabloid journalists in work.

I wonder how much is lost each year via tax avoidance schemes peddled by the big accountancy firms ... not quite as good headlines though eh?

 

[Bernie Gunther]

I wonder how much is lost each year via tax avoidance schemes peddled by the big accountancy firms ... not quite as good headlines though eh?

Well, to judge by this article, Rupert Murdoch alone seems to dodge something on the order of £100m per annum in UK taxes.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/special_report/1999/02/99/e-cyclopedia/302366.stm

As someone who actually pays their taxes, I resent this a lot more than I resent a fraction of my taxes going to fund unemployment benefits.

 

[magneze]

Well, to judge by this article, Rupert Murdoch alone seems to dodge something on the order of £100m per annum in UK taxes.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/special_report/1999/02/99/e-cyclopedia/302366.stm

As someone who actually pays their taxes, I resent this a lot more than I resent a fraction of my taxes going to fund unemployment benefits.

Absolutely - but this isn't publicised at all. It's fucked up.

 

[exosculate]

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

And this from 3 years ago:

"It [uk government] has failed to publish any estimates of tax avoidance by wealthy individuals and companies even though the tax yield from corporation tax has declined from the 1999-2000 figure of £34.3bn to £29.2bn for 2002-03, representing a decrease in real terms of nearly £10bn." Guardian 2003

The specifics of this tax position may have changed since then, but you can bet your bottom dollar that corporations and the Murdochs of this world certainly don't pay anywhere near their 'share' of taxes.

 

[poster342002]

600,000 current job vacancies

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out of interest does this include escorts required? Are we going to go down the german root of sending women for jobs in brothels? I find it interesting that not many feamle urbanites seem to be bothered about this post when it is people of their gender who will suffer most.Still maybe it simply reveals their socio-economic status.


5million economically inactive people

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Romanians and Bulgarians and other eastern europeans on their way

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massive housing shortage

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Left wing in love with international issues and basically saying to under/workingclass you smell go away.

Come on now! Don't you realise that it isn't all those things that are the most important political issues today - but actually islamophobia and Guantanamo Bay?

 

[tbaldwin]

Come on now! Don't you realise that it isn't all those things that are the most important political issues today - but actually islamophobia and Guantanano Bay?

It was good to see that even the ridiculously moronic independent actually got round to the issue of Darfur on its FRONT PAGE today!

 

[brasicritique]

You mean better kyser. Interseting to see that you did not deny the fact that you are a bitter old panto queen