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john bowden

revol68 said:
Well where do you think John Bowden should be instead of prison? Should he have been just allowed to escape off?
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I don't know. I haven't informed myself enough about alternatives to the current penal system to form a decent response to that question.
 
Oh, and since you mentioned Mark Barnsley as a less problematic example - he wrotethe introduction to "Tear Down the Walls", so I think it's safe to assume a degree of support from him for Bowden.
 
fruitimix said:
an answer: yes i have used google you cockmonger, as if you took the trouble to read my first post you will see that i said: "having searched around i've found a few websites about him, but nowhere does it say what he's actually in prison for?"

that too difficult to understand cuntychops?
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ever heard of wiki peadia you moron...
 
llantwit said:
I don't know. I haven't informed myself enough about alternatives to the current penal system to form a decent response to that question.
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well when reading Bowdens pamphlet weren't you ever presented with a wee question saying 'well what will we do with all the really sick cunts out there who need to be locked up'.
 
Of course I fucking was. I just don't know the answer yet. I wish I had your certainty, mate. I really do.
I'm not exactly sure about the makeup of the system economic production and distribution I'd ideally like to replace capitalism with, either. That doesn't mean I can't disagree with what we have now, though. Does it?
And nowhere have I said I was against locking really sick cunts up - but it's not a case of the current prison system or none at all is it?
I'm off out of the country for 5 days now - sorry to duck out of this one.
 
llantwit said:
Of course I fucking was. I just don't know the answer yet. I wish I had your certainty, mate. I really do.
I'm not exactly sure about the makeup of the system economic production and distribution I'd ideally like to replace capitalism with, either. That doesn't mean I can't disagree with what we have now, though. Does it?
And nowhere have I said I was against locking really sick cunts up - but it's not a case of the current prison system or none at all is it?
I'm off out of the country for 5 days now - sorry to duck out of this one.
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yeah it's not all or nothing, it's quite simple we can be opposed to the prison system in general without having to support any psychopath who doesn't like it much either.
 
revol68 said:
yeah it's not all or nothing, it's quite simple we can be opposed to the prison system in general without having to support any psychopath who doesn't like it much either.
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Well I'd argue you can support the critique written by a "psychopath" (neither of us knows he is one) without condoning the crimes they've committed.
 
llantwit said:
Well I'd argue you can support the critique written by a "psychopath" without condoning the crimes they've committed.
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You mean agree with his critique, well yeah I suppouse I'd probably agree with close to 90% of it.

But there's a difference between agreeing with his critique and supporting him in a campaign for release.
 
the state that wishes to break, destroy, and pound him (and others like him) into the ground.
yes I'll get the popcorn don't actually see the problem with scumbags having a horrible time in jail.
NOw actually making prison work so that that if they get out there be useful
members of society now thats a diffrent matter.
if your in jail you should have to earn the right to get out again
 
revol68 said:
You mean agree with his critique, well yeah I suppouse I'd probably agree with close to 90% of it.

But there's a difference between agreeing with his critique and supporting him in a campaign for release.
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It would seem prudent to support a lifer in their internal struggle for prison reform whilst applying pressure from without for serious reforms. There is no room for prisons to become profit-making commercial ventures, as they have become in the States. It would be wisest to push for prisons in the UK to model themselves on the best parst of the European system, which has a proven track record of reduction in reoffending, and a greater emphasis on personal responsiblity, (e.g. small groups of prisoners who act as a unit in order to see to their daily needs - food preparation, with time time for re-education and skills-share/learning). There is a PRESSING need for prison reform in this country. It is counter-productive to outsource the running of UK prisons to American firms such as GEO (who run Guantanamo and were formerly known as Wackenhut), or even faith-based enterprises.

This confusion-diversion created by this (American) Social Worker, along with other recent media smearists of Anarchy, are confusing Anarchism with with Ochlarchism, and I wonder if some segments of the Anarchist movement themselves are making this same confusion - either way, these misunderstandings that often surface as smears do need to be addressed.

Anarchism is direct democracy by any other name - it is not mob rule, violence, or the dissolution or destruction of society.

Anarchism is a social science, and a social movement - it is not terrorism, chaos, destruction and whatever other negative spin which some journalists and many politicians project upon it to suit their political agenda.
 
Blagsta said:
What the fuck is ochlarchism? :confused:
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The only other person I've ever seen use it is that one off mad-mental who runs anarchy.no

I think it's supposed to mean people who believe that anarchism=violence, chaos, terrorism, etc.
 
They're not real, you weirdo :D

You'll be telling me that you believe that the (entirely fictional) Anarchist Federation of Great Britain has 200 members, next :D
 
Luther Blissett said:
Whaddya mean 'they're not real'. Who's 'they'?
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That website is a hoax, look at the other pages, it's fucking mental. It's one person (presumably from Norway) whose sole political activity is inventing fake "anarchist internationals" and publishing denunciations of every anarchist group in existence as "ochlarchists" and "Marxist infiltrators".

It claims that Norway had a successful anarchist revolution several decades back, for fucks sake!
 
You're going to have to prove the claims you've just made. Did you just quickly scan the website, and make those judgement? I'd like you to show the exact quotes you're basing your conclusions on.

Membership of the Anarchist International is quite easy. I'm a member of the Anarchist International, but you, with your 'mental-health' jibes have clearly not joined up yet! :D
1) We are anarchists because we believe that human freedom and happiness would be best guaranteed by a society based on principles of self-organization, voluntary association, and mutual aid, and because we reject all forms of social relations based on systemic violence, such as the state or capitalism.

2) We are, however, profoundly anti-sectarian, by which we mean two things:

a) we do not attempt to enforce any particular form of anarchism on one other: Platformist, Syndicalist, Primitivist, Insurrectionist or any other. Neither do we wish to exclude anyone on this basis - we value diversity as a principle in itself, limited only by our common rejection of structures of domination such as racism, sexism, fundamentalism, etc.

b) since we see anarchism not as a doctrine so much as a process of movement towards a free, just, and sustainable, society, we believe anarchists should not limit themselves to cooperating with those who self-identify as anarchists, but should actively seek to cooperate with anyone who are working to create a world based on those same broad liberatory principles, and, in fact, to learn from them. One of the purposes of the International is to facilitate this: both to make it easier for us to bring some of those millions around the world who are, effectively, anarchists without knowing it, into touch with the thoughts of others who have worked in that same tradition, and, at the same time, to enrich the anarchist tradition itself through contact with their experiences

3) We reject all forms of vanguardism and believe that the proper role of the anarchist intellectual (a role that should be open to everyone) is to take part in an ongoing dialogue: to learn from the experience of popular community-building and struggle and offer back the fruits of reflection on that experience not in the spirit of the dictat, but of the gift.

4) Anyone who accepts these principles is a member of the Anarchist International and everyone who is a member of the Anarchist International is empowered to act as a spokesperson if they so desire. Because we value diversity, we do not expect uniformity of views other than acceptance of the principles themselves (and, of course, acknowledgement that such diversity exists)

5) Organization is neither a value in itself nor an evil in itself; the level of organizational structure appropriate to any given project or task can never be dictated in advance but can only be determined by those actually engaged in it. So with any project initiated within the International: it should be up to those undertaking it to determine the form and level of organization appropriate for that project. At this point, there is no need for a decision-making structure for the International itself but if in the future members feel there should be, it shall be up to the group itself to determine how that process should work, provided only that it be within the broad spirit of decentralization and direct democracy.
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So, let's see some evidence, In Bloom, thanks.
 
http://www.anarchy.no/formula.html
(1) DEGREE OF ANARCHY = 100[1-([(1-(AUTONOMY%/100))2+(1-(SOCIALISM%/100))2]/2) 1/2]%

This is the general Formula of Anarchism related to the Economic-Political map. The degree of anarchy is defined for the Quadrant of Anarchism on the EP-map. In general the libertarian degree is used, i.e. also valid outside the anarchist quadrant:

(2) LIBERTARIAN DEGREE = 100[1-([(1-(AUTONOMY%/100))2+(1-(SOCIALISM%/100))2]/2) 1/2]%

In general, for the whole map, the authoritarian degree is used, i.e. 100% minus the libertarian degree.

AUTHORITARIAN DEGREE = 100% - 100[1-([(1-(AUTONOMY%/100))2+(1-(SOCIALISM%/100))2]/2) 1/2]% <=>

AUTHORITARIAN DEGREE = 100[ 1 - [1-([(1-(AUTONOMY%/100))2+(1-(SOCIALISM%/100))2]/2) 1/2]]% <=>

(3) AUTHORITARIAN DEGREE = 100[([(1-(AUTONOMY%/100))2+(1-(SOCIALISM%/100))2]/2) 1/2]%

(4) The degree of autonomy is 100% - the degree of statism and the degree of socialism is 100% - the degree of capitalism

From (3) and (4) we get:

(5) AUTHORITARIAN DEGREE = 100[([(STATISM%/100)2+(CAPITALISM%/100)2]/2) 1/2]%

If the authoritarian degree is not significant, i.e. less than 50%, outside the anarchist quadrant, the term semilibertarian system is used.
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:D
 
The fact that that site also claims to be the site of the Interational of Anarchist Federations (IAF-IFA) that was formed in Carrara, Italy, when that organisation's site is here, also speaks to the mentalness of it all.
 
http://www.anarchy.no/apt.html
IWW/AI is also against the "all workers - one union" strategy of the Industrial-WW and others, that reminds anarchists of the Soviet Union, and their intrigues, lies and smearstories related to Jamal Hannah & co at [email protected] against the Anarchist International and its sections, similar to Marx's intrigues etc. against Bakunin in the First International. Nobody should link up to this student commie type joke of an "industrial union" nor take it seriously. Boycott "Industrial-WW"! They also may see this as a strong Brown Card warning. If they don't correct the smearstories and lies, they may soon get the Brown Card.
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"Brown card" :D

Had enough evidence yet?
 
Luther Blisset that Norwegian lot is one mental person, he used to spam my aol email account years ago.
 
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