dylans
overlord of all acorns
She was and remains a fuck of lot more powerful than a low grade jobcenter worker that's for sure. You are naive. Naively annoying.
Jobcenter worker sacked for activism
- Thread starter dylans
- Start date
She was and remains a fuck of lot more powerful than a low grade jobcenter worker that's for sure. You are naive. Naively annoying.
CyberRose
أرفع الشفرات
So you think it more likely that this is some complex revenge plot by a powerful MP rather than the fact he committed a sackable offence? And I'M naive!?
dylans
overlord of all acorns
So you think it more likely that this is some complex revenge plot by a powerful MP rather than the fact he committed a sackable offence? And I'M naive!?
He didn't commit a sackable offence.That's the whole point. A decision was made a pretty high level of management to push disciplinary action for political activity that was completely unrelated to his job. A decision was made to fire him. This was a political decision.
CyberRose
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Well the article says he committed a sackable offence?
It's NOT a sack-able really a sack-able offence for anyone with real employment rights. No job centre staff have ever been fired for being politically active. Being caught picking ones nose is a sack-able offence if one hasn't been employed for 2 years or more with ones employer.
I
JHE
.
Isn't it with less than one year that you have no right to take an unfair dismissal to an Employment Tribunal?
Anyway, yes, without that period in the job (whichever the period is), the employer can in effect sack you for anything, however unfair, without your being able to do much about it. It stinks.
I would have expected things to be a little more civilised in the Civil Service, though, if only because it is strongly unionised.
teqniq
DisMembered
While a revenge plot against this one individual is somewhat unlikely, it's considerably more likely than your scenario of a low level dole advisor managing to maneuver a particular political party into power.So you think it more likely that this is some complex revenge plot by a powerful MP rather than the fact he committed a sackable offence? And I'M naive!?
Too right. If you can't criticise fiddling MPs what has the world come to.
And if doctors want the NHS privatised they can fuck off to BUPA . They have no place in the NHS. Its like working for Asda and appearing on telly saying "Tesco's are fucking great, much better than..."
CyberRose
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Ah but I've never made that claim, and considering you're an intelligent person you already know that, which suggests your comments above are little more than a crappy attempt to win the argument...
CyberRose
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You know about mathematical probabilities right? Can you give me an estimate of what you think the probability is that France was sacked at the say so of a disgraced (soon to be former) MP, compared to the probability that he was sacked because he (apparently according to the article, altho disputed on here) broke the terms of his contract in his probationary period?
CyberRose
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And is it not ok for highly political/partisan individuals to allow factors like that to affect their jobs like in the example you give above?
dylans
overlord of all acorns
I think this is correct. It doesn't take a sinister conspiracy, just someone above him with a dislike for his activities. Him being on probation made it possible. But it was still a political decision to fire him. He was fired because someone took a dislike to his high profile role in the campaign and decided to fuck him.
CyberRrose the fact that you feel the need to apologise for the behaviour of the DWP in this grubby affair is very sad.
the DWP is like that, an extremely hierarchical organisation where senior management are often involved in grassroots decisions as long as it doesnt mean actually setting foot inside a job centre
and its a cosy world with local District managers, MPs, councillors and cunts like a4e all regularly hobnobbing and conspiring to fleece the system and fuck the clients as much as possible
CyberRose
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I'm not apologising for the DWP, I'm trying to explain 1) why this person was sacked, 2) why he shouldn't be surprised to be sacked and 3) why we have these rules in the first place. That's all. If people don't like that then tough luck, but that's the way it is...
I see this as pretty easy.
First he was right to help get a bent politician out of politics regardless of the party they were part of.
Next. If his political activities were done in work time or effected his work the boss was right to ditch him.
If not, it's wrong and so are the work's rules.
That also goes for BNP members. We all have the right to think and hold an opinion without being sacked for it (as long as they don't bring their filth to work) even if they are as crappy as the BNP's.
First he was right to help get a bent politician out of politics regardless of the party they were part of.
Next. If his political activities were done in work time or effected his work the boss was right to ditch him.
If not, it's wrong and so are the work's rules.
That also goes for BNP members. We all have the right to think and hold an opinion without being sacked for it (as long as they don't bring their filth to work) even if they are as crappy as the BNP's.
dylans
overlord of all acorns
No-one, not even the DWP, is claiming that his activities were done in work time or had any effect on his work. The two were entirely unrelated.
If it has no effect on his work, they were wrong to sack him for it.
I was being somewhat facetious, but the point still stands. A dole advisor does not possess the power to distort the electoral process in the manner that you suggest, which makes your defence of the DWP's (selectively applied, by the way) rules against employees being politically active appear somewhat spurious.
dylans
overlord of all acorns
They weren't just wrong. They were politically motivated.
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
It also says 'gross misconduct' so a summary dismissal within probationary period i.e. no notice/pay in lieu of notice and probably statutory minimum hol pay. Very sneaky/unpleasant indeed. Insufficient service to bring an unfair dismissal claim and I doubt they'd have done it if he had.
*remembers other job centre employment issues not least the massive class action re ties a few years back*.
No surprises there then.
JHE
.
Are al-Respeq Big Knobs Supporting Little al-Respeq Activist?
Have there been public statements of support for Mark France and against his sacking from the indefatigable Gorgeous George Galloway MP, the BBC's favourite hijab-wearer, Cllr Salmonella Yakult, and Big Abjol Miah, who intends to be the next MP for Bethnal Green and Bow? If not, why not?
Have there been public statements of support for Mark France and against his sacking from the indefatigable Gorgeous George Galloway MP, the BBC's favourite hijab-wearer, Cllr Salmonella Yakult, and Big Abjol Miah, who intends to be the next MP for Bethnal Green and Bow? If not, why not?
JHE
.
Websites:
Al-Respeq - Nothing about Mark France; lots in support of some suspected terrorist called Khan
Salmonella - Site down for maintenance - it has been for ages
GGG - Nothing about Mark France; lots about the "passionate" Yvonne Ridley, that creepy friend of Abu Porksa
Big Abjol - Nothing about Mark France; not updated for ages
Big Abjol's latest two illiterate 'tweets' on 'Twitter':
Been ages sine i have been on here!!!
just got back from a Hip hop event organised by the Friends of Al-Aqsa..
just got back from a Hip hop event organised by the Friends of Al-Aqsa..
Still, it's early days. Perhaps the leading lights of al-Respeq will soon rally to Mark France's support. Inshallah.
If Mark France really wants to be sure of their support, though, he should change his name to something like Abdul Rahman al-Shahid.
mark france
New Member
Hi folks!
I used to sign on at bromsgrove job centre until... january when I got a job there.
I was a community activist involved in petitioning with local military families in favour of withdrawl from iraq and afghanistan and led a successful campaign to stop the local council demolishing an old edwardian school building. I was also a regular writter of letters to my local paper. After I was expelled from the Labour Party for presenting a 500 strong Bromsgrove Military Families Against the War petition to Gordon Brown in June 2007 when he was crowned PM.... I decided to join RESPECT. [one of the 4 members of Respect in the whole of Worcestershire!]
On my first day in work my line manager said 'you must stop writting letters to the paper' .... I questioned the basis of this instruction and sought clarification. In February I explained to my bosses extactly my level of voluntary political committment and sought advice from my trade union.
Nothing was said and no clarification came.
I was very competent at my work and never behaved in an 'unprofessional' way at work.
on May 16th I was approached by a Sky News TV crew doing vox pop interviews on the MP's expenses row on a saturday afternoon on Bromsgrove high stree and I simply said what I thought.
Within days we had a vibrant local petitioning campaign involving hundreds of people all over Bromsgrove Constituency from all sorts of backgrounds demanding the immediate resignation of our MP julie kirkbride.
The local tories tried to Brand the petitioning campaign as some sort of 'front' for RESPECT and to counter these allegations - I resigned from RESPECT on 26th May.
The petitioning activity kept growing and on 28th May Julie Kirkbride announced she would not stand at the next general election.
On the 3rd June Management at the DWP started a long drawn out disciplinary process that eventually led to my sacking on August 20th for gross misconduct... [they started this process by hand delievering a letter to my home while I was on annual leave that had been booked in January - apparently a very unusal way of communicating]
On the 4th of June I got 321 votes [12.8%] of the vote in a local county council election standing as a 'independent' [I didn't have anytime to do any canvassing or leafleting so was pleased with this level of support for a first time candidate]
I specifically and in writting told management of my intention to stand in the local elections on Feburary 23rd. Again I spoke with management at a meeting on May 11th were I restated my intention to stand in the local elections.
At no point did anyone from management say that I was not permitted to stand in the elections.
At no point did I recieve any clarification of what I can and can't do as a junior civil servant.
It may interest people to know other DWP [child support agency] employees have stood as BNP candidates without it affecting their job... the case of Frank Swaine in Hastings being one example.
It may interest people to know that a senior DWP boss in Bromyard Hereford [part of the 'Marches District of the DWP which includes Bromsgrove] is a tory local councillor and currently a town mayor who spoke controversially to the media last month in support of the occupation of afghanistan on the occasion of a Bromyard born soldier who was killed in helmand.
anyway must dash...
got to sign on!
thanks dylans for starting this thread....and check out this link
http://www.bromsgrovestandard.co.uk/news81187.html
love
mark
I used to sign on at bromsgrove job centre until... january when I got a job there.
I was a community activist involved in petitioning with local military families in favour of withdrawl from iraq and afghanistan and led a successful campaign to stop the local council demolishing an old edwardian school building. I was also a regular writter of letters to my local paper. After I was expelled from the Labour Party for presenting a 500 strong Bromsgrove Military Families Against the War petition to Gordon Brown in June 2007 when he was crowned PM.... I decided to join RESPECT. [one of the 4 members of Respect in the whole of Worcestershire!]
On my first day in work my line manager said 'you must stop writting letters to the paper' .... I questioned the basis of this instruction and sought clarification. In February I explained to my bosses extactly my level of voluntary political committment and sought advice from my trade union.
Nothing was said and no clarification came.
I was very competent at my work and never behaved in an 'unprofessional' way at work.
on May 16th I was approached by a Sky News TV crew doing vox pop interviews on the MP's expenses row on a saturday afternoon on Bromsgrove high stree and I simply said what I thought.
Within days we had a vibrant local petitioning campaign involving hundreds of people all over Bromsgrove Constituency from all sorts of backgrounds demanding the immediate resignation of our MP julie kirkbride.
The local tories tried to Brand the petitioning campaign as some sort of 'front' for RESPECT and to counter these allegations - I resigned from RESPECT on 26th May.
The petitioning activity kept growing and on 28th May Julie Kirkbride announced she would not stand at the next general election.
On the 3rd June Management at the DWP started a long drawn out disciplinary process that eventually led to my sacking on August 20th for gross misconduct... [they started this process by hand delievering a letter to my home while I was on annual leave that had been booked in January - apparently a very unusal way of communicating]
On the 4th of June I got 321 votes [12.8%] of the vote in a local county council election standing as a 'independent' [I didn't have anytime to do any canvassing or leafleting so was pleased with this level of support for a first time candidate]
I specifically and in writting told management of my intention to stand in the local elections on Feburary 23rd. Again I spoke with management at a meeting on May 11th were I restated my intention to stand in the local elections.
At no point did anyone from management say that I was not permitted to stand in the elections.
At no point did I recieve any clarification of what I can and can't do as a junior civil servant.
It may interest people to know other DWP [child support agency] employees have stood as BNP candidates without it affecting their job... the case of Frank Swaine in Hastings being one example.
It may interest people to know that a senior DWP boss in Bromyard Hereford [part of the 'Marches District of the DWP which includes Bromsgrove] is a tory local councillor and currently a town mayor who spoke controversially to the media last month in support of the occupation of afghanistan on the occasion of a Bromyard born soldier who was killed in helmand.
anyway must dash...
got to sign on!
thanks dylans for starting this thread....and check out this link
http://www.bromsgrovestandard.co.uk/news81187.html
love
mark
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
Mark, have you appealed against the dismissal? Are the union representing you? Have they advised you that even though you don't have sufficient service for an unfair dismissal claim, you are potentially able to bring a wrongful dismissal claim (breach of contract) because that's not service related?
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
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