Jeremy Corbyn's time is up

Discussion in 'UK politics, current affairs and news' started by hash tag, Jun 24, 2016.

  1. William of Walworth

    William of Walworth Festographer


    Oh I know, but as someone who follows politics more than normal people do, I liked that speech when I read it.

    Not really sure why Geri didn't -- genuinely interested as to why not? Cheers.
     
    SaskiaJayne likes this.
  2. bemused

    bemused Well-Known Member

    I notice people claim this unless their party has great local election results. Last May wasn't good for Labour I don't think it is unreasonable to expect them to do well this time around given their GE performance.
     
  3. Poi E

    Poi E Pessimism: a valuable protection against quackery.

    "Australian" will do:(
     
    Pickman's model likes this.
  4. Rimbaud

    Rimbaud Well-Known Member

    I'm recently working part time at a call centre for a polling company. Young people are hard to get a hold of, but you keep going until they reach a certain quota - if they had 1000 respondents aged over 65 and 3 aged 18-30, we would have to prioritise by asking if there is anyone aged 18-30 in the house we can speak, and we would stop wasting time conducting interviews with people aged 65 or over. Or you'd stop calling landlines and call mobiles instead until you had a large enough sample of young people.
     
  5. ViolentPanda

    ViolentPanda Hardly getting over it.

    I was trying to distinguish him from the many pleasant and kind Aussies I know.
     
  6. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    "come and say 'g'day'" :cool:
     
    Badgers likes this.
  7. Poi E

    Poi E Pessimism: a valuable protection against quackery.

    Ah! "Thundercunt" in the vernacular.
     
    ViolentPanda likes this.
  8. Rimbaud

    Rimbaud Well-Known Member

    I don't think there is anyone who infuiriates me more than Nick Cohen.

    He is fucking obsessed with foreign policy. I have not once in any of his articles panning Corbyn seen any acknowledgement of the economic grievances which are behind his support. It's about housing, jobs, and wages, not Hamas for fuck's sake. I don't know what planet he lives on.
     
    vanya, William of Walworth and NoXion like this.
  9. scifisam

    scifisam feck! arse! girls! drink!

    You're going to get a very self-selecting group of young people there then, even more so than with other groups.
     
    NoXion likes this.
  10. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    when i worked in market research there was a time when the company was doing a hair products survey - and cold-calling. so the people working on that managed to reach quota of women pretty easily, but getting the men was rather more difficult. my colleagues were calling people and asking if there was a man in the house. this didn't go down so well with some people who were made quite nervous by the calls and reported the matter to the police. the upshot of this was that the company made it so all outward calls were anonymised :facepalm:
     
    Idris2002, Rimbaud and Badgers like this.
  11. Kaka Tim

    Kaka Tim Crush the Saboteurs!

    I failed to get past the first three paragraphs. he's fucking delusional. everyone flocking behind the evil, Leninist corbyn and mc donald are gullible sheep who can't see the truth ...
    Everyone else sees the corbyn labour party as a return to moderate social democracy - investment in public services and housing, reversing a few of the particularity shit privatisations, an end to austerity, abolishing student loans and some moderate wealth distribution.

    As you say Cohen ignores the policies and why people like them and sees ... fuck knows what he sees tbh - gulags in lincolnshire? hamas flags over buckingham palace?

    Who is he talking to? Who believes this frenzied guff. The tories dont - they are very aware of where labour are coming from and fear its appeal.
    Was Nic deeply traumatised at some student trot meeting? Did he loose his true love to a militant recruiter at Marxism 88? Why do the observer keep him on the pay roll? - Maybe they should send him to a therapist instead.

    Also note they never allow reader comments on his pieces. Cant think why
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2017
    vanya, oryx, gawkrodger and 5 others like this.
  12. Geri

    Geri wasn't born to follow

    I am at work today and then I cam going out, but I will try and reply when I have time, unless anyone else feels like doing it in the meantime.
     
  13. killer b

    killer b Gazing vacantly at a plate of mince

    Stephen Bush has a good piece on polling just up on the staggers

    Do polls matter?
     
  14. Rimbaud

    Rimbaud Well-Known Member

    Yeah, it would tend to be people higher on agreeableness personality trait. It tends to be "nicer" people who go along with the survey rather than hang up the phone. Not sure to what extent this correlates with political views, and how/if this is weighted for.
     
    bimble likes this.
  15. SaskiaJayne

    SaskiaJayne Rural Guerrilla

    Sorry I should have quoted. I was actually referring to the Nick Cohen piece but it is of course equally true about the Corbyn piece. So you raise a valid point. The “leave voters are stupid” meme is of course mostly not true but vast amounts of people with good well paid job do not do much politics. They have other interests.

    One place you can hear simply a lack of knowledge in action is on brexit/immigration related radio phone in shows. People come out with completely wrong stuff that had they spent seconds on google they would have known was wrong. It’s not racism or predjudice necessarily it is simply lack of knowledge because they do not do any research.

    Plenty of people seem genuinely puzzled. They cannot understand why brexit is so complicated. They voted leave so why have we not left? They don’t know because they watch box sets & sport on tv not politics. They don’t do politics so they blame dishonest politicians as normal because they voted to leave & we have not left.
     
    William of Walworth likes this.
  16. Rimbaud

    Rimbaud Well-Known Member

    The thing is, there is a germ of a good idea beneath his whole schtick. I did peruse his "What's Left?" book (although I skim read it really so just going on my general impression here) and he seemed to have a point that the left circa-2003 was kind of directionless and just jumped on any bandwagon, and needed to get back to universal enlightenment ideals. The left should make common cause with leftists (including types of liberal) in the arab world rather than supporting reactionaries out of a misguided and simplistic anti-imperialism.

    BUT I feel he is too narrow minded and arrogant to get this point across. He was wrong to support the Iraq war, and he has no credibility left from his refusal to deal with that or reflect on it publicly. And post-2008 the left has moved on from the confused quagmire it was it. He is still stuck in 2003, but doesn't realise a large percentage of Momentum were still at school then and he is fighting some weird North London, middle aged media luvvy dinner party debate from 15 years ago and extrapolating this to the rest of the country. I have no idea why he is still given column inches, because he is really shit and irrelevant.

    And he is also wrong to believe that the thing he rails against is a sign of secret totalitarian impulses. At best it is naive, but not specifically western. Chinese dissident Liu Xiaobo once claimed that China needs to be colonised to become a democratic country, and imo this is the same mentality as the naive anti-imperialists, who are more interested in contradicting the Daily Mail and their own nations right wing, just as Liu Xiaobo would be more concerned with contradicting the CCP. It is muddle headed thinking, but not a sign of totalitarianism. And there is an interesting discussion to be had about this dialectic (e.g. western leftist supporters of Assad, Putin etc, strongly pro-American Iranian liberals... there is a communication problem here which ought to be bridged) but Cohen is not truly interested in this as much as he is in his own ego and getting to condemn everyone else as impure.
     
    vanya and William of Walworth like this.
  17. kabbes

    kabbes "A top 400 poster"

    It's not a badly written bit of obviousness, but just as it is about to get interesting, it stops. "There is interesting information," he tells us. But then he doesn't bother telling us what this interesting information actually is...
     
  18. DotCommunist

    DotCommunist my world is fire and blood

    annoying reminder that the next election is 5 years away in there.
     
  19. kabbes

    kabbes "A top 400 poster"

    Less than 4.5 years now!
     
    Rimbaud likes this.
  20. SaskiaJayne

    SaskiaJayne Rural Guerrilla

    Less than 4.5mnths. :D
     
  21. bemused

    bemused Well-Known Member

    I'm sure this has been answered but I can't find it.

    Why does Momentum tolerate Owen Jones?

    It strikes me that any set back in the Corbyn project and Owen is going to revert to type and blame Corbyn for putting 'the left back'
     
  22. killer b

    killer b Gazing vacantly at a plate of mince

    They let John McTernan join, so I guess they're pretty forgiving of lapses of fervour.
     
  23. ayatollah

    ayatollah Well-Known Member

    You are spot on about Owen Jones - an opportunist fake Leftie of the classic kind. He rubbished Corbyn in the Guardian and his blog for 18 months during the worst of the anti Corbyn Long Coup shenanigans in 2016/2017, and essentially backed Progress and Pfizer's stooge, Owen Smith, in the 2016 Leadership contest. Owen Jones, incredibly, has a huge social media following , on the basis of one, very average, book, Chavs, (oh, and that boring one on UK elites)and being set up by the mass media as "da voice of Left Yoof", to be consulted whenever an unimpressive , cliché monger, with the visual image and manner of a lippy 15 year old, was required to be the Left voice on a panel discussion. He therefore had a significant role (dwarfed by the sabotage of the Labour PLP Right of course, and a much wider constant MSM Corbyn attack fest) in damaging Labour's 2017 Election starting point - 20 points behind.

    Then Labour do amazingly well in the GE , and Owen Jones is shown to be totally incorrect about the appeal of Corbyn and the Left radical reformism of "Corbynism". So, like all true shameless opportunists , he declares delight in Labour's electoral success, climbs back on the Corbyn bandwagon, and sucks up to Momentum, and is now one of its key spokespersons . Along with the weird ex Trot, ex music teacher, ex Newsnight economic editor, and deeply confused Guardianista Left Liberal , Paul Mason. So why didn't Momentum tell Owen Jones to fuck off ? Because he will indeed stab Corbyn and momentum in the back again as soon as the Corbyn surge falters . Because "Momentum" is run buy a tightly knit junta without any genuine democratic validity. It is legally a wholly owned company of one, old Labour Left Bennite backroom manoeuvrer ,Jon Lansman, who essentially personally decides all Momentum policy via his entirely stitched up national committee. Lansman deeply admires Owen Jones' huge social media following - so the fact that he is a guaranteed turncoat again in the future, and undoubtedly will be a writer for The Spectator and Daily Mail, "regretting his foolish Leftie yoof", in five years or so, matters not to the manipulative , short-termist mindset of Jon Lansman.

    When the power of the global capitalist markets , and PLP sabotage, and a vitriolic Mass media campaign, crush a future Corbyn government like a rotten fruit , and the reduction of the 200,000 strong Momentum (supporters and members) to a depoliticised canvassing force , rather than the basis of a real politically educated mass radical Left, proves that the top down political preferences of the old Labour Lefties and old stalinists like Murray and Milne, are a Mitterrand'ish or Syriza'ish , or even at worst a Salvadore Allende's Chile type of political disaster for the Left - Owen Jones will renounce his Leftiness and effortlessly segue to the new National Government's coattails !
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2017
    Bingo, agricola, Libertad and 2 others like this.
  24. agricola

    agricola a genuine importer of owls

    A call to action!

     
  25. Crispy

    Crispy The following psytrance is baṉned: All

    I looked at that list and my lips peeled back from my teeth until my gums were bared and dry.
     
    Dogsauce, Almor, Sprocket. and 7 others like this.
  26. killer b

    killer b Gazing vacantly at a plate of mince

    you've got this the wrong way round - Jones was on-board from the start of the GE campaign, and really put in the hours.

    I don't think you can really blame anyone in Labour for blinking over Corbyn before the election tbf. Regardless of your position he was starting to look like a total disaster.
     
    FridgeMagnet likes this.
  27. DotCommunist

    DotCommunist my world is fire and blood

    I don't want to change the world, I'm not looking for new england, do you fancy a half arsed UK version of ciudadanos
     
  28. SaskiaJayne

    SaskiaJayne Rural Guerrilla

    Recreating the Tory party as it was in May 2015 is not going to solve the housing crisis.
     
  29. hash tag

    hash tag Pedicabo omnes

    "call centre" "market research" , cant think where the diffwerence lies :D
     
    Pickman's model likes this.
  30. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    When I was in market research I worked in a small room with six other people. We phoned out, but when I worked in a call centre (2 days!) people called us.
     
    agricola likes this.

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