Jay Z thing is a bit racist, no?

[Dravinian]

well i don't know, like you i have never cared about what's on the main stage, jay z or the killers it's all equally shit to me! but i don't know if the uproar about jayz is coming from the people who actually go and watch the main stage it's from the press etc isn't it?

In answer to Bluestreak too.

It is no good blaming hte press etc when last year ALL the tickets sold out in less then an hour, and this year even now, only 100k been sold, I don't particularly think the press control who buys tickets to glastonbury and who doesn't.

What this has to do with Race, I am unsure.

This might be a part of a larger issue where Music seems to be quite divided by race. Indie bands, Metal Bands I been to a few concerts, you don't see many black faces. RnB bands, I been to a few concerts (mainly working admittedly) and you don't see many white faces. There is of course some overlap, but the majority of the crowd watching a few certain genres of music tend to be one 'colour' or another.

But is that racism, or merely cultural differences? I was brought up on MoTown, but I don't like modern RnB, I spent the NWA years listening to Rap, liked early 50c to, but I still don't like modern RnB. I doubt this has a racial reason given my propensity to listen to Rap and old school MoTown.

Is a weedy guy strumming a guitar talking about his angst ridden middle class university existence really going to say anything to a black kid living in a rough neighbourhood? Is a hard core gangster wannabe talking about Ho's and Guns really going to connect to a skinny spotty white guy in Uni worrying about whether he will get his degree?

Racism or cultural differences, I think I would say Cultural differences.

 

[editor]

But Jay-Z's stature does deserve pyramid stage status. He's sold far more records than most of the guys who'll appear on similar slots, a lengthy career, a good history of headlining major stages.

Fuck that. The day that Glasto acts are decided on 'stature' and record sales alone is the day the festie is really fucked.

Most of the legendary headline performances have not been from mega-global bands at the peak of their record-shifting careers, and this notion of huge-selling millionaire international acts somehow "deserving" a headline slot is a ludicrous argument.

 

[The Groke]

Is a weedy guy strumming a guitar talking about his angst ridden middle class university existence really going to say anything to a black kid living in a rough neighbourhood? Is a hard core gangster wannabe talking about Ho's and Guns really going to connect to a skinny spotty white guy in Uni worrying about whether he will get his degree?

Racism or cultural differences, I think I would say Cultural differences.

Isn't nice the way we can fit everyone in to nice little compartments. Heavens forbid there should be any sort of mingling or crossover of cultures - especially not in music!!

 

[ChrisFilter]

Jay-Z headlining was one of the main attractions for me this year. The boring, droning, wankfest, skinny jean wearing fuckwits that have previously been the mainstay of Glastonbury line-ups could do with a shake up. If I'd have gone, it would have lead to me bothering with the Pyramid stage, which I haven't done since '99.

 

[bluestreak]

It is no good blaming hte press etc when last year ALL the tickets sold out in less then an hour, and this year even now, only 100k been sold, I don't particularly think the press control who buys tickets to glastonbury and who doesn't.

But blaming the line-up solely is just as wrong-headed.

You seriously don't think that, when 14 months ago Glastonbury was being touted in every newspaper as one of THE things you have to do this summer, where it was seen as the place to be for all the cool kids, where fashion magazines were doing spreads on which tents and wellies to be seen with, that this didn't have an effect? And indeed, that the mud and the sense of let-down in all the papers didn't? That Glastonbury has been talked about in the press as a failure since the moment registration opened and that hasn't had an effect?

You can blame Eavis's choice of bands all you like, but last year's weather and the last few months of media moaning have played their part too.

 

[tarannau]

Not to mention the whole day of hip hop in 1999 in the dance tent featuring the Roots, Ozomatli, DJ Cash Money, Dr Dooom feat. Kool Keith, Motion Man & Kut masta Kurt, DJ Noise & MC Supernatural, London Scratch Club, Rae & Christian, and Blak Twang.

Trouble with that comparison is that those acts were marginalised off onto a separate stage. Equally, and without trying to bring class into it again, that's a very comfortable selection of non-threatening acts more popular with the musical press than most hip hop buyers. Blak Twang perhaps aside, you wouldn't have heard kids on buses blaring out those tunes.

I can't help feel that some of the animosity against Jay-Z is based on the (largely false) perception that he's a 'Bling' rapper that doesn't deserve a place on the main stage. And he does deserve a lot more credit that that

 

[El Jefe]

I think it's a valid cultural comparison. Putting on Jay Z as a headliner on the main stage at Glasto just seems, well, a bit forced to me. And another sign of its increasing corporate profile for major acts.

Bollocks. You think Jay-Z is any more corporate than the Verve or Coldplay or any of the usual cunts that headline the mainstage?

Jay-Z playing means I might watch a mainstage headline act for the first time in about a decade.

There's some nasty attitudes on this thread

 

[salem]

So far I've heard no one but that nobber Gallagher complain about Jay-Z. Sure some people have said the line up hasn't grabbed them yet but that's hardly the same thing.

It's a non-issue as far as I can see. No racism involved, only the loud mouth twat's press-friendly sound bite.

 

[jayeola]

• Jay-Z at Glynebourne
• Jay-Z @ Notting Hill Carnival
• J/Z @ The Proms
• Jay-Zee @ Glasto
• Jayeola @ the Bingo in Kennington

Which is the odd one out? I've not been b/cos most of the bands don't appeal to me and never have. I'm not really into the "white guys, tight trousers, long hair and guitar" music, (although there is some jolly good stuff out there), not for three days anyway.

Selling 100k tickets doesn't seem like a flop to me. There might be a slight "invasion of the drum machine mentality" but J/Z, (as do many rappers), perform with live bands and when they do, they make great music.

Who cares if the "JZ/not JZ debate" smacks of racism or even if there is a hint of it? There's enough of it to go around in Real Life.

"Yah, but, what if it was M&M or the Beasty Boys? Would people still complain?" Who gives a shit? Who knows?

 

[clandestino]

Surely the problem is that Jay-Z is the only really high profile act that's been announced. You can hardly put Kings Of Leon in the same league. For the people who care about the line up, rather than the committed festophiles who are happy to go for the total experience, there's no other big draw. And therefore no one else to blame.

The registration thing didn't help either I'd imagine.

I think Jay Z at Glastonbury is a good thing. But I think people knowing bits and pieces of the line up before the tickets have sold out is a very bad thing indeed. It's the Eavis's fault for leaking some of the line-up.

 

[kained&able]

Jay-z is utter gash(part from like 7 songs) I will be avoiding his set like the plague.

Luckily massive attack are playing at the same time as him so it really wont be hard.

I think the fact that the OP quantifies rap as being black only is more racist then what noel is saying. There are plenty of dnam good white rappers about and plenty of hip hop fans of all colours and creeds. Its got fuck all to do with race and a lot more to do with if jay-z is the right vibe for glastonbury.

Personally i don't care if he is or isn't as he is toss.

dave

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

As i understood it, this was a deliberate move by Eavis the younger to begin to attract a broader, but more importantly younger demographic, to the festival. Trouble is it's too damned expensive for the kids and the kids don't want to spend a dirty weekend in a load of cow fields down the west country.

 

[El Jefe]

Jay-z is utter gash(part from like 7 songs) I will be avoiding his set like the plague.

Jay Z is excellent, you cloth-eared goon

 

[tarannau]

Fuck that. The day that Glasto acts are decided on 'stature' and record sales alone is the day the festie is really fucked.

Most of the legendary headline performances have not been from mega-global bands at the peak of their record-shifting careers, and this notion of huge-selling millionaire international acts somehow "deserving" a headline slot is a ludicrous argument.

Pish - status of the main headliners has always been a consideration, with the Jay-Z selection something of an unusual gamble and in keeping with Glastonbury's spirit in my eyes. Wasn't Kylie being talked about recently - wouldn't Jay Z be far more of an inclusive, challenging step than a fading ex-soap SAW star . And Jay-Z's not even at the peak of his career too - having retired and all and in comeback mode too. Hell, he follows the precedent of Macca I guess, although at least he has a decent record to his name in the last 20 years,

As I say, he's not even my cuppa, but I find myself justifying the bloke against some truly asinine and uninformed bollocks.

 

[salem]

Trouble with that comparison is that those acts were marginalised off onto a separate stage. Equally, and without trying to bring class into it again, that's a very comfortable selection of non-threatening acts more popular with the musical press than most hip hop buyers. Blak Twang perhaps aside, you wouldn't have heard kids on buses blaring out those tunes.

I can't help feel that some of the animosity against Jay-Z is based on the (largely false) perception that he's a 'Bling' rapper that doesn't deserve a place on the main stage. And he does deserve a lot more credit that that

I think that's a very good point, however the typical glasto crowd aren't kids who play their music on the bus. And despite Jay-Z's talents, one of his last songs had the chorous "99 problems but a bitch ain't one" so it's understandable that the right-on brigade aren't going to be singing his praises.

 

[twistedAM]

But blaming the line-up solely is just as wrong-headed.

You seriously don't think that, when 14 months ago Glastonbury was being touted in every newspaper as one of THE things you have to do this summer, where it was seen as the place to be for all the cool kids, where fashion magazines were doing spreads on which tents and wellies to be seen with, that this didn't have an effect? And indeed, that the mud and the sense of let-down in all the papers didn't? That Glastonbury has been talked about in the press as a failure since the moment registration opened and that hasn't had an effect?

You can blame Eavis's choice of bands all you like, but last year's weather and the last few months of media moaning have played their part too.

The Eavis family need some PR help, badly: farmers who tried to step things just when the music industry professionals went niche.

The success of Latitude last year (right down to its better planned environmental policies) really hit Glastonbury in the media.

 

[tarannau]

Jay-z is utter gash(part from like 7 songs) I will be avoiding his set like the plague.
e

When Dave speaks, you just know the opposite will be true.

 

[bluestreak]

It's one of the reasons why I like the guy.

I'm completely neutral on Jay-Z, I like a few tracks but can't get that excited about him, but now dave has come out as not a fan I'm pretty much sure that if I go see him it'll be a superb show!

 

[Yossarian]

Travis, Coldplay, and the Stereophonics have headlined that stage so I don't see how anybody can seriously complain about the quality of any subsequent headliners being worse than in previous years - even just wheeling out a year's worth of Glastonbury cowshit on stage and using some kind of industrial blower to pelt the audience with it would be an improvement.

 

[El Jefe]

Travis, Coldplay, and the Stereophonics have headlined that stage so I don't see how anybody can seriously complain about the quality of any subsequent headliners being worse than in previous years - even just wheeling out a year's worth of Glastonbury cowshit on stage and using some kind of industrial blower to pelt the audience with it would be an improvement.

This

 

[corporate whore]

Travis, Coldplay, and the Stereophonics have headlined that stage so I don't see how anybody can seriously complain about the quality of any subsequent headliners being worse than in previous years - even just wheeling out a year's worth of Glastonbury cowshit on stage and using some kind of industrial blower to pelt the audience with it would be an improvement.

Lest we forget Rod Stewart..

 

[editor]

There's some nasty attitudes on this thread

'Nasty' as in what way?

There's nothing wrong with some people not sharing your tastes, you know.

 

[editor]

Travis, Coldplay, and the Stereophonics have headlined that stage so I don't see how anybody can seriously complain about the quality of any subsequent headliners being worse than in previous years - even just wheeling out a year's worth of Glastonbury cowshit on stage and using some kind of industrial blower to pelt the audience with it would be an improvement.

I like it!

 

[bluestreak]

Lest we forget Rod Stewart..

Exactly. If we didn't raze Worthy Farm to the ground after that abomination we have no right to pass comment on anyone else.

 

[Socket]

Lest we forget Rod Stewart..

I had. Quite successfully.

 

[kained&able]

Dub hadn't you fucked off and died or something.

Jay-z is everything that everyone who complains about rap complains about. Mysoginistic, bling, pimp this, ho that lyrically weak cares more about money then he does the music, uses lots of samples, aroogent. He is toss.

The only exceptions being. Dig a hole, moment of clarity, renegade, the take over, 99 problems, got myself a gun.

Everything else he has ever put out is toss.

Oh and add to the fact that he managed to piss off DMX & llcoolj enough for them to leave def jam and almost everyone on either rock-a-fella and def jam(while he was in charge) have been held back ridiculously makes me hate him even more.

He is toss. and you quoting your normal but dave is always wrong type bollocks is fucking lazy and fucking wrong.

dave

 

[El Jefe]

'Nasty' as in what way?

There's nothing wrong with some people not sharing your tastes, you know.

it wasn't necessarily directed at you and it has fuck all to do with tastes.

jesus

 

[editor]

Pish - status of the main headliners has always been a consideration, with the Jay-Z selection something of an unusual gamble and in keeping with Glastonbury's spirit in my eyes.

You won't hear me defending recent headline choices, but I find your argument that he has somehow "earned" a slot just because he's sold zillions of records a really shit one.

 

[Dravinian]

Isn't nice the way we can fit everyone in to nice little compartments. Heavens forbid there should be any sort of mingling or crossover of cultures - especially not in music!!

Well I did mention 'some overlap' nothing is ever as simple as being exact.

I would hope we were all mature enough to understand that nothing is that simple or that easy, but we can make generalisations, because they are based on fact. There is a racial division when it comes to certain musical genres, I showed a single example to try and explain why that might be, not to suggest that this is the absolute case in every example, but merely to show why these racial divides exist, and to show that they are not really racial divides at all, but rather economic divides that highlight the racial divide in terms of economic success in our society.

I don't think it is a case of 'I am not listening to them they are black/white' it is simply a case of listening to people who are experiencing or at the very least singing about experiencing your experiences. It is why The Smiths managed to drag me away from listening to NWA, not because Morissey was white but because his angst ridden bullshit really meant something to me when I was that age, whereas the cop killing of NWA just sort of stopped having any meaning for me. Grunge of the 90s took me out of indie, because it reflected my angry feelings towards government, it was edgier and harder and it was talking about my experiences. It doesn't matter whether the group was black or white, it is all about what they are talking about.

Written quite a long post and still so much more to say on this subject, this is the problem though when you start picking people up when they show examples, about how their examples don't encompass the entire diversity of human existence, people end up writing short essays.

 

[editor]

it wasn't necessarily directed at you and it has fuck all to do with tastes.

Then what are these "nasty" attitudes you're on about?