Jamie's Ministry of Food

[Santino]

I have become lost in your metaphor. Why is a poo-slathered steak part of the wider misanthropic working class again?

Shut up and eat your kebabs.

 

[kabbes]

This is true, but the issue I was taking, um, issue with was that the woman couldn't be reasonably expected to find 30 minutes in which to make dinner.

Remember, though, that it was St. Jamie that raised the "30 minutes" illusion. In point of fact, it generally takes a fair bit longer than this to make a meal from scratch.

More pertinently, Ol' JO was saying it not in the context of making a meal but that of teaching other people to make meals. It would certainly take more than 30 minutes out of your evening to do that. In short, he was tilting at straw men.

 

[tarannau]

Let's not mention her wasting money on cigarettes.

Oh come on. When life's miserable in the main, people often turn to solace in booze or tobacco. I can understand that.

 

[zenie]

This is true, but the issue I was taking, um, issue with was that the woman couldn't be reasonably expected to find 30 minutes in which to make dinner.

Perhaps she doesn't manage her time very well, or hasn't been shown to.

But if you're on benefits, surely you have no spare money for gold in the first place?

don't be naiive!!!

 

[kabbes]

Obvious to spot the privileged from their posts innit?

Expand, please.

 

[beeboo]

Neither. She said she got rid of her jewellery, he didn't understand what she meant, so she clarified. That was it. Oliver's not an idiot, he has heard of people pawning stuff before.

It's kind of embarassing I remember this, but I think the conversation went:

Her: "I've sold all my jewellery"
Him: "You've had to pawn stuff?"
....
Him: "I'm not saying I understand [what you're going through] because to be honest...I don't".

 

[mrsfran]

That's a little patronising too. She's obviously severely in debt and has been raised with little appreciation or knowledge of food - in many ways she's taking the path of least resistance and the one she's most familiar with. You can get a lot of fried chicken with £2, a far less daunting prospect than learning what to do with more expensive seeming veg.

Folks take it for granted that people are raised around homecooked food and the idea of family dinners gathered around a table. In fact that's a fairly recent regal 'invention' that the middle classes aspired to by all accounts. Britain's never been particularly good at putting food at the centre of the home ime - compare it to other countries where the door's always open and a pot of homecooked food for all always on.

When I went to University I was shocked by just how little many people knew about food. And these were mainly middle class folks with more settled families in the main, their learning taking place with peers at Uni. Many trapped in the takeaway cycle don't have that opportunity to learn with others, nor the motivation or willingness to spend money learning cooking. Food's massively important to me, but I'm not going to waggle fingers at those who don't share the same priorities. If you can't cook, that takeaway offers a depressing satisfying high fat meal for seemingly little.

I wasn't taught how to cook and we never sat round a table for meals. I knew fuck all about cooking when I went to university. But I learned. By myself. It's not like cooking is a secret only the middle classes know. Trapped in a take-away cycle? What's that then? "I had had a take-away yesterday. Oh no. Now I have to have another one today." All you have to do is buy a bag of pasta and a tin of tomatoes. To talk about being "trapped" is patronising, ime. You don't have to care about food to not eat kebabs every night. Make a sandwich.

 

[Griff]

*subscribes to Jamie Oliver/chav/Elizabeth Duke thread*

 

[zenie]

Expand, please.

Why I think it's quite obvious what side of the fence fabriclive sit's on

 

[kabbes]

Can we all just agree at this point to replace the word "kebabs" with "sub-prime meat product"?

 

[Orang Utan]

Not everyone cares about food though - it's just fuel for some.

 

[starfish2000]

I love the way he goes to a Northern Town...thus reinforcing the stereotypes and cultural Supremacy that people in the South East have over anyone further up than the Watford Gap. Oh look theres some poor Blighter eating a Kebab darling how awful....isnt there voice funny. I'm from Derby and I met a bloke in London once who thought "Kes" was set there.

Theres plenty of people not eating right in Brighton or Camden Jamie...

Whats he gonna do next Black up and cook Creole?

 

[Santino]

sub-prime meat product raises a good point.

 

[zenie]

I love the way he goes to a Northern Town...thus reinforcing the stereotypes and cultural Supremacy that people in the South East have over anyone further up than the Watford Gap. Oh look theres some poor Blighter eating a Kebab darling how awful....isnt there voice funny. I'm from Derby and I met a bloke in London once who thought "Kes" was set there.

Theres plenty of people not eating right in Brighton or Camden Jamie...

Whats he gonna do next Black up and cook Creole?

In fairness is there not more unemployment/deprivation/people on benefits in the north than in the south?

 

[tarannau]

Fuck that - I've lived in poverty before and still eaten well - you have to spend some time shopping, finding bargains (and don't tell me that someone who's unemployed doesn't have timeto do either). Tara's point about cooking ignorance is a reason but not an excuse.

Yeah, but your mum was obviously a good one. As was mine. She also speaks with a Trevor McDonald West Indian accent and believed entirely in the received idea of polite sit-down family dinners, as aspirational as the Jones' next door could be.

I've met people at Uni who came from settled homes who couldn't cook pasta (didn't realise the pan needed water) and thought cream only came out of cans. And they were raised around family meals and homecooking - other folks I knew never saw their father or mother in the kitchen, let alone had the slightest idea how to cook

The lack of culinary knowledge is alien to me, particularly with my food and cook-up obsessed, family. And yes, as I've said earlier, there's only so much you can excuse before you start to think of it as ignorance, stupidity and laziness. But I can understand how the situation comes about.

 

[kabbes]

Why I think it's quite obvious what side of the fence fabriclive sit's on

I see what you're saying, but you're attacking her by smearing everybody that isn't underprivileged, which seems a little harsh. I'd guess that I'm at least as privileged as fabriclive but you don't see me being an odious twat. At least, not about this subject. I reserve the right to be as odious a twat as I want about other things. Can you not just call her a cunt and leave it at that?

 

[mrsfran]

FBL's a bloke.

 

[beeboo]

This is true, but the issue I was taking, um, issue with was that the woman couldn't be reasonably expected to find 30 minutes in which to make dinner.

If I were a working mum, I'm sure there'd be other reasonable calls on my time (spending time with the kids, chores, bills etc) that I may want to prioritise above spending 30 minutes entirely on cooking, when I can easily get some kind of dinner on the table in 5.

What I was saying is that I think he should be aiming to get people to do something less complex. Spending half an hour making meatballs is a bit of a luxury.

Last night I made roast chicken, roast potatoes and veggies - 5 mins chopping stuff, whacked it in the oven, went out of the house for an hour, came back and threw it on a couple of plates. Ta-da, roast dinner with about 10 minutes total time in the kitchen.

 

[_angel_]

To be fair, I'd find it hard to keep a straight, non-judgmental face if somebody told me that they spent £70 of their £80 benefit on takaways nearly every night. You could certainly buy a little salmon with that.

The class thing gets on my tits as well. Certainly there are some compelling reason why Brits may not have learnt to cook well, but the excuse wears thin after a while. Things have changed massively foodwise in the space of a generation or two - a melting pot of cultures that's seen Tikka masala overtake boiled mince in the nation's hearts and seen plenty of folks cook well on the breadline. Past a certain point, not being able to cook at all is about ignorance, laziness and hopelessness.

Round where I live there are a tonne (and I mean a tonne) of dirt cheap takeaways of dubious merit. It actually can be cheaper ringing one of them (esp if it's just for 1-2 people) than doing a meal from scratch. Depressing, but true.

 

[tarannau]

I wasn't taught how to cook and we never sat round a table for meals. I knew fuck all about cooking when I went to university. But I learned. By myself. It's not like cooking is a secret only the middle classes know. Trapped in a take-away cycle? What's that then? "I had had a take-away yesterday. Oh no. Now I have to have another one today." All you have to do is buy a bag of pasta and a tin of tomatoes. To talk about being "trapped" is patronising, ime. You don't have to care about food to not eat kebabs every night. Make a sandwich.

Yes, but I'm guessing your family had a modicom of stability and you had the chance of living with other types of people at Uni. Not everyone has that advantage - some never have seen their family eat anything other than takeaways or convenience food. And to be brutal, buying a frozen lasagna from the overpriced convenience store is hardly much better or cheaper than something from the takeaway.

Who says they eat kebabs every night? There's the curryhouse, the chicken shop and the fish n chippy for a start. And to make a sandwich you'd have to buy the bread and filling - you could buy a takeway for less than the price of a loaf these days.

It's not my style in the slightest - I love my food and taught myself too- but there are a lot of oversimplifications going around.

 

[DotCommunist]

This.

It's nice to see that my taxes are going to fund the Kebab houses.

thoes two girls were just lazy chav cunts.

'my taxes'

fuck off to the daily mail boards you ignorant twunt

 

[Orang Utan]

FBL's a bloke.

Not as I recall

 

[zenie]

I see what you're saying, but you're attacking her by smearing everybody that isn't underprivileged, which seems a little harsh. I'd guess that I'm at least as privileged as fabriclive but you don't see me being an odious twat. At least, not about this subject. I reserve the right to be as odious a twat as I want about other things. Can you not just call her a cunt and leave it at that?

No I'm not. And cunt isn't hlf as effective.

FBL's a bloke.

I've met her, I swear

 

[Kanda]

FBL's a bloke.

Incorrect.

 

[mrsfran]

Yes, but I'm guessing your family had a modicom of stability and you had the chance of living with other types of people at Uni. Not everyone has that advantage - some never have seen their family eat anything other than takeaways or convenience food. And to be brutal, buying a frozen lasagna from the overpriced convenience store is hardly much better or cheaper than something from the takeaway.

Who says they eat kebabs every night? There's the curryhouse, the chicken shop and the fish n chippy for a start. And to make a sandwich you'd have to buy the bread and filling - you could buy a takeway for less than the price of a loaf these days.

It's not my style in the slightest - I love my food and taught myself too- but there are a lot of oversimplifications going around.

You know very well a loaf of bread and filling, or a bag of pasta and a jar of pesto, is not going to cost £10, which is what the woman said she spent every day on take-aways. And it's going to last you longer than one take-away. She is not trapped, she does not HAVE to have take-aways, she can teach herself just like you and I did. Why wouldn't she be able to?

 

[mrsfran]

Oh. I thought FBL was a bloke. I was wrong. Sorry about that.

 

[tarannau]

Round where I live there are a tonne (and I mean a tonne) of dirt cheap takeaways of dubious merit. It actually can be cheaper ringing one of them (esp if it's just for 1-2 people) than doing a meal from scratch. Depressing, but true.

You do realise I live in South London don't you, where you can't walk two corners without encountering a low priced fried chicken shop



I'd agree with you in terms of cost. I can buy 6 wings, chips and a can of drink for £1.50 - £2.00. I could barely buy the chicken for that at supermarket prices, even at the value ranges.

Now I can certainly cook something tastier and more nutritous for much cheaper using pulses, bulk bought rice/meat and some well selected veg, but that takes some knowledge and confidence, especially if you haven't eaten that type of food yourself before. There are also barriers to entering the cooking world - if you have no spices or decent pans, then the cost of those plus ingredients seems prohibitive.

 

[FabricLiveBaby!]

Their ilk

.. yeah.... people like them.... their ilk.



there isn't just one person that behaves in this way - I know at least 10.

 

[kabbes]

FBL's a bloke.

Not as I recall

I've met her, I swear

Incorrect.

In your FACE, Fran.

In. Your. Face.

 

[Kanda]

Why wouldn't she be able to?

Can't be arsed???