Jamie Oliver's School Dinners Debate

[FabricLiveBaby!]

Spanner in the works...

Did anyone see the article in yesterday's Guardian about the school canteen companies threatening to quit if they are nopt paid more? http://lifeandhealth.guardian.co.uk/health/story/0,,1875136,00.html Due to the fact that the kids are not buying from them anymore - they're going to the shops instead - as they are not stocking the bad food that they've been used to. A very frustrating situation..

TBH I don't know why kids are allowed out at lunchtime during school hours. In my school it was banned unless there was a very special reason that you should go home for lunch.

People can't expect children to make well informed decisions about thier diet, or anything. That's why they are children. Expecting a child to go out and buy the "right" food for themselved when they don't even know what a potato looks like is ridiculous.

 

[kyser_soze]

You're a moron, you really are.

This has nothing to do with it being 'media led' opinion - if he'd been talking bollocks, or parents had decided that it wasn't worth bothering about nothing would have happened.

And just out of interest, what exactly do you mean by 'media led' opinion? That people shouldn't take information from the media and make their minds up about what to do with it? (Which is what happened in the case of JO) That somehow 'media' is some new, modern innovation?

Or do you agree that school meals were perfectly adequate and that nothing needed to be done, and that JO wasted his time in highlighting the problem?

 

[tastebud]

Clearly this amazing phenomenon isn't all that popular witht those who have to actually eat the stuff.

Oh no! *cries* We'd better stop the whole campaign immediately then!

Idiot.

I have to say posterwhassiname, I'm not exactly sure what it is you're suggesting as the alternative? I'm not sure you have one actually. Go on, suggest it to me. Suggest a better alternative that doesn't involve Jamie Oliver.

Also, just so you know, it happens all day every day. Charities for example, more often than not use a celebrity to promote some initiative that they're doing. Would you also suggest that they stop doing things this way, and of course risk their initiative being less successful as a result, just so that they don't have to upset you!?

You can't change the way things work, you can't change our society, why not just work with what you've got, if it means the end result is a positive one for the kids (/people involved).

 

[magneze]

Yeah - bring on the food stasi.

Can't be any worse than the class stasi.

 

[poster342002]

Yep; why can't I just shut up for the sake of the greater good - as dictated by self-appointed experts.

 

[tastebud]

TBH I don't know why kids are allowed out at lunchtime during school hours. In my school it was banned unless there was a very special reason that you should go home for lunch.

People can't expect children to make well informed decisions about thier diet, or anything. That's why they are children. Expecting a child to go out and buy the "right" food for themselved when they don't even know what a potato looks like is ridiculous.

Well of course, they shouldn't be allowed out. They're kids after all. I mean, I even find myself popping into shops for junk food occasionally.

It's not exactly safe for kids to go out at lunchtime nowadays anyway. Though I guess they can still get this stuff on the journey to and from school.

It really is tricky and education about food really needs to be focussed on in this whole campaign. But even then it may not work, I mean look at how many knowledgeable adults find it so hard to resist junk food.

But at least it's a start and it may help at least some.

 

[tastebud]

as dictated by self-appointed experts.

I'm sure you know better than them, of course.

 

[magneze]

Yep; why can't I just shut up for the sake of the greater good - as dictated by self-appointed experts.

No, don't shut up. Just come up with something more convincing than "middle class ... celebrity ... media led" because that's pretty much all you've said so far. It's showing up the absolute paucity of your argument.

 

[poster342002]

Though I guess they can still get this stuff on the journey to and from school.

Why not electronically tag them, so that if they go into a shop selling said items, a signal is sent back to food-stasi HQ and a fine automatically generated for the parents?

We have the technology, we have the answers...

 

[kyser_soze]

No, don't shut up. Just come up with something more convincing than "middle class ... celebrity ... media led" because that's pretty much all you've said so far. It's showing up the absolute paucity of your argument.

Innit? No real arguement or awareness of the issues, just a knee-jerk reaction from an internet class warrior.

 

[Herbsman.]

This guy really is a waste of webspace. He really doesn't have anything sensible to say, so it's a shame that people have felt the need rise to his nonsensical fuckwittery. If he really believes what he is saying then he really is a prize fuckwit, an idiot beyond belief. Or perhaps he's just a stroppy little teenager.

Look how he completely misses the point, chats some irrelevant bollocks, and then fails to answer anyone elses questions sensibly if at all. Please, for the sake of reasonable discussion about a very important topic, leave this poor moronic child alone.

 

[poster342002]

Innit? No real arguement or awareness of the issues, just a knee-jerk reaction from an internet class warrior.

Yep - I'm just so fick that I just don't understand fings. Duuuuhhhhh. Luckilly, I've got 'slebrities wot know better than me to tell me wot to fink.

 

[kyser_soze]

Y'see, you're doing it again - not actually engaging with any of the points, just trotting out the same old crap again.

 

[Herbsman.]

I think that is the area he's going to have to be most careful in actually - as what he's saying with increasing fervour is that there is a lot of bad parenting going on out there and he'll lose support if people feel too heavily criticised. When he was being positive as well as showing the truth of what the kids were eating he got more encouraging results.

Me too - when he said "if you're feeding your kids fizzy drinks, you're an arsehole" I couldn't help thinking "well done Jamie, you've just shot yourself in the foot and alienated at least 90% of the people you're trying to reach out to."

People don't like being dictated to, or insulted - he needs to be more careful about what he says and does.

 

[poster342002]

Y'see, you're doing it again - not actually engaging with any of the points, just trotting out the same old crap again.

Because there's nothing to enage with and I don't think it merits being given the legitmacy a response would wrongly give it.

 

[Pieface]

What is your solution then Poster? You can't deny our society's health is suffering and that this generation of children are less healthy than ever before because of a diet heavy in junk. I know there have been times in the past when children have been very unhealthy due to having too little but this is a new problem.

Or do you think it should be left as it is and the junk food companies should rake in cash to the detriment of the nation's health? I doubt you support the needs of Rowntrees or Walkers or Schweppes - do you think the focus should be on the companies that supply the rubbish, rather than on educating about their dangers?

I'd like to see these government-vaunted intentions about restricting advertising actually happen - and see if it has any effect.

 

[SubZeroCat]

I think it's up to the parents, and I also think most parents would rather give their kids healthy foods once they are presented with the evidence: i.e. children so constipated they end up vomiting faecal matter (as Jamie mentioned on a visit made to a hospital).

I find it depressing that no one thinks in terms of preventions and only does something when things go seriously wrong. Healthiness is not like that

I find Jamie Oliver annoying but I wholeheartedly agree with and support what he's doing about school dinners. This is just one corner of the overall problem but at least he's doing something. I'm also impressed at how far he's taken it.

Can I just point out that after several weeks of Jamie's healthy school dinners the teachers reported better concentration and maintenance of energy and the school nurse had no requests for asthma inhaler use. Do these kind of results bother you poster342002? Despite problems with fully implementing this new diet, do you see anything wrong with these kind of results?

Or are you one of the school kids who has been deprived of his turkey twizzlers and is withdrawing from fat, sugar, salt and E numbers and therefore unable to control his mood?

1/3 of all cancers are diet related and obesity is costing the NHS over £1 billion a year. What do you suggest gets done? Or does this not concern you?

 

[kyser_soze]

Do you think he's tipped the scale in his head from 'useful crusader' to 'insane dictator'? I mean FFS - giving kids fizzy drinks isn't a bad thing in and of itself, just only giving kids fizzy stuff to drink.

 

[FabricLiveBaby!]

Why not electronically tag them, so that if they go into a shop selling said items, a signal is sent back to food-stasi HQ and a fine automatically generated for the parents?

We have the technology, we have the answers...

 

[Pieface]

Do you think he's tipped the scale in his head from 'useful crusader' to 'insane dictator'? I mean FFS - giving kids fizzy drinks isn't a bad thing in and of itself, just only giving kids fizzy stuff to drink.

He can't mix his message though - I think he'd lose some impact. It is a campaign afterall.

 

[girasol]

Do you think he's tipped the scale in his head from 'useful crusader' to 'insane dictator'? I mean FFS - giving kids fizzy drinks isn't a bad thing in and of itself, just only giving kids fizzy stuff to drink.

Maybe he's losing it, he could be, especially if he's meeting so many people who think like poster342002 along the way, or parents who insist on feeding crap to their kids because they don't like 'being told what to do'

 

[tastebud]

Do you think he's tipped the scale in his head from 'useful crusader' to 'insane dictator'? I mean FFS - giving kids fizzy drinks isn't a bad thing in and of itself, just only giving kids fizzy stuff to drink.

I haven't seen it. TBH I really can't be arsed. I can easily read about it in the news the next day, but from what I remember of the last one he seemed to *react* without necessarily thinking, quite a lot. A bit like a spoilt child stamping his feet. Sounds like what might've happened there.

But yeah, I do get your point and incidentally I do sympathise with some of the Jamie backlash. The whole campaign needs trained professionals to control things a bit more I think.

 

[kyser_soze]

Ok poster, I ask you this question:

Have you ever read a book, or leaflet, that's changed your mind about something? Cos that's 'media led' opinion.

Have you ever seen someone you respect speak in public - maybe at a union meeting - and thought 'Yeah! That's a great idea! Let's do something to sort this out!'

Well this is what JO did with the first series of 'Jamie's Scholl Dinners' It's called communication, altho you're obviously a little too slow to see that reading a book, a website, or a newspaper, or watching TV are THE SAME THING - you are consuming media.

 

[Herbsman.]

Um.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/south_yorkshire/5349392.stm

Doesnt help when the parents are pig ignorant .

I read a similar article in my friend's newspaper, here it is http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2006430142,,00.html

One of the mothers says
"I just don’t like him and what he stands for. He’s forcing our kids to become more picky about their food."

What, as opposed to not being picky at all, and just being happy to eat any old shite?

 

[FabricLiveBaby!]

He won't be able to win on the parents front if the parents are as badly educated about food as the children.

It has to start in schools and especially at a young age.

A good diet is ingrained into you. I think we shall se what happens when the new series starts.

When I was in primary school parents were asked to pay the dinner money direct to the school so the kids didn't spend it on junk on the way home.

Jameis started to implement this in secondary schoos for willing parents.I don't see why this can't be implemented especially if the parent is willing. That way the school benefits rather then the tuck shop down the road, and other kids will see their peers eating healthly and may join in. IT may be a small change but a positive step.

 

[SubZeroCat]

But yeah, I do get your point and incidentally I do sympathise with some of the Jamie backlash. The whole campaign needs trained professionals to control things a bit more I think.

I agree and I think Jamie desperately needs some professional support because I don't see how he's gonna pull it off by himself, whilst having a family and a restaurant to run.

I'm a bit cynical about whether the government is bothered enough about this though...

 

[Roadkill]

The cry of 'oooh it's a middle class concern' is just a way of short-circuiting the debate.

Class is clearly very important both in terms of expectations and access to good quality food, but to suggest that only middle class people have a choice about eating healthily, or only care about doing so, is simplistic nonsense that only a wadical keyboard warrior like poster34002 could come out with.

What these kiddy-wevolutionaries fail to see is that any major social change - from their revolutionnary dreams downwards - depends on changing attitudes. Personally I think food (broadly defined to include food safety, diet, control of the food chain etc) is one of the most important issues facing us all at the moment. The food chain is in the hands of fewer and fewer big processors and retailers, the rise of processed food is a massive health problem, first world farmers go bust whilst third world farmers are pushed into growing cash crops, pollution from food miles is skyrocketing, all of this is facilitated and led by a few dominant and dodgy retail chains etc etc ad infinitum. I think the whole situation is really fucking frightening, and to suggest that it's only the middle classes who are, or should be, concerned with changing it is totally and utterly fucking stupid.

I don't care where the impetus for that change comes from. It's a massive and complex issue and too big for one person to address anyway. If it takes someone like Jamie Oliver to address one important part of it then, much as I don't like the bloke much, good for him. I don't like Jane Moore either but her documentary on supermarkets was very good. What matters is to get people thinking about this and other major issues. If it takes 'celebrities' like Jamie Oliver then so be it.

 

[tastebud]

Because there's nothing to enage with

Only cos you're ruining the debate with your silly trolling. But if you do want more intelligent comments, why not read the thread: http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=132906 I started on this topic last year.

 

[magneze]

Another thing that struck me from the programme last night was Olivers attempt to get school catering away from the big food producers who relentlessly drive down costs and start using local producers. Seems to make a lot of sense all round I thought.

 

[kyser_soze]

I agree and I think Jamie desperately needs some professional support because I don't see how he's gonna pull it off by himself, whilst having a family and a restaurant to run.

I'm a bit cynical about whether the government is bothered enough about this though...

1st para - he's running his marriage into the ground apparently; he did the same with 15.

I reckon that the lack of support is a really quick and easy way to dispense with the irritant - if he's at the stampy feet stage (which given he's a chef isn't a surprise) and he starts alienating parents how long will it be til his message is lost and the whole thing is quietly left alone?