IYO, what are the issues anarchists should be addressing?

[cesare]

Bless

 

[DotCommunist]

I get it - under anarchism, the pronoun "we" will be abolished.

Wow you said pronoun. You are well clever. Care to speak for everyone with your 'we' again?

 

[danny la rouge]

At local, national, or international level.

In order to appeal to a wider audience? If you're not an anarchist, what issues would make you pick up an political newsletter or flyer to read?

What sort of presentation would interest you enough to read it as well?

I know you may end up not agreeing with their POV, but I'd like to know what the non-political people would see as something a political movement / opinion piece would address in order to make them read it or perhaps consider their viewpoint?

I am an anarchist.

What the movement should be addressing is encouraging community self management.

I'm not sure handing out leaflets is the way forward.

 

[teuchter]

so you think something that has not been defined to your satisfaction will not work.

Oh Kay

As I said in that post, the very general theoretical principles have been defined to my satisfaction, but the manner in which they would be put into practise in the real world has not.

Therefore I am not convinced that it would ever work.

The question asked in the OP was about how communicate anarchist ideas to a wider public. That was the question I answered.

I think you got out of the wrong side of bed yesterday.

 

[teuchter]

To who? Tuechters court of Who Gets To Call Themselves Anarchists?

No, to The Wider World That Anarchists Want To Promote Their Ideas To, Which Was What The OP Was About

If they want to fight amongst themselves about who gets to call themselves anarchists, that's their choice. It's not a very promising promotion strategy though.

 

[DotCommunist]

Yeah, that's likely.

Still not beholden on me nor the OP to do the research for you though

 

[DotCommunist]

No, to The Wider World That Anarchists Want To Promote Their Ideas To, Which Was What The OP Was About

If they want to fight amongst themselves about who gets to call themselves anarchists, that's their choice. It's not a very promising promotion strategy though.

You really aren't going to bother to read anything relevant before giving it the biggun are you (as much as such a dour poster could possibly conceive of 'the biggun')

 

[teuchter]

Yeah, that's likely.

Still not beholden on me nor the OP to do the research for you though

Have you actually read what Bluestreak asked in his first post?

And where did I say anything about anyone being beholden to do research for me?

My time on this earth is finite, so I can't read absolutely everything about everything that might possibly interest me. Therefore there are some things that I only spend so much time finding out about before deciding that further investigation is not merited. This is what everyone does. The point of good political promotion is to make people interested enough that they want to find out more. If anarchists want to do this, fine. If they don't, fine. Up to them.

 

[the button]

No, to The Wider World That Anarchists Want To Promote Their Ideas To, Which Was What The OP Was About

tbh, I was never that interested in promoting "anarchist ideas." What I was interested in was promoting working class self-organisation as a response to whatever was going on -- either at work or in the community. To elaborate what I mean by working class self-organisation, at a day-to-day level it means stuff like not relying on "representatives" like MPs, councillors and trade union full-timers to sort your problems out 1) because when it comes down to it, their interests are not our interests and 2) even if they do 'sort things out', they do it in such a way that you still have to rely on them next time around.

To give a small example, a few years back my estate had £1.2 million that had previously been promised for home improvements taken away in the name of the government's "Decent Homes" initiative. We (meaning local residents, rather than mad-eyed anarchists) had a couple of meetings about it, decided not to do the "go to your MP's surgery and moan about it" route, but instead decided to picket Lewisham council's "Decent Homes Roadshows" in the borough and point out in no uncertain terms to attendees that this initiative could mean *less* money for improvements, not more. We had a good response -- probably helped by a few lady demonstrators turning up not wearing many clothes (our banner had the slogan "x estate -- we're not decent". )

Not a perfect campaign by any means, but one that had the community taking action to pursue its own goals. We got our money back, btw.

 

[teuchter]

tbh, I was never that interested in promoting "anarchist ideas." What I was interested in was promoting working class self-organisation as a response to whatever was going on -- either at work or in the community. To elaborate what I mean by working class self-organisation, at a day-to-day level it means stuff like not relying on "representatives" like MPs, councillors and trade union full-timers to sort your problems out 1) because when it comes down to it, their interests are not our interests and 2) even if they do 'sort things out', they do it in such a way that you still have to rely on them next time around.

To give a small example, a few years back my estate had £1.2 million that had previously been promised for home improvements taken away in the name of the government's "Decent Homes" initiative. We (meaning local residents, rather than mad-eyed anarchists) had a couple of meetings about it, decided not to do the "go to your MP's surgery and moan about it" route, but instead decided to picket Lewisham council's "Decent Homes Roadshows" in the borough and point out in no uncertain terms to attendees that this initiative could mean *less* money for improvements, not more. We had a good response -- probably helped by a few lady demonstrators turning up not wearing many clothes (our banner had the slogan "x estate -- we're not decent". )

Not a perfect campaign by any means, but one that had the community taking action to pursue its own goals. We got our money back, btw.

Certainly, it's more effective doing that kind of thing than being grumpy on the internet, anyway.

 

[DotCommunist]

Have you actually read what Bluestreak asked in his first post?

And where did I say anything about anyone being beholden to do research for me?

My time on this earth is finite, so I can't read absolutely everything about everything that might possibly interest me. Therefore there are some things that I only spend so much time finding out about before deciding that further investigation is not merited. This is what everyone does. The point of good political promotion is to make people interested enough that they want to find out more. If anarchists want to do this, fine. If they don't, fine. Up to them.

oh, sorry to hear that. What do you read about then? Things that don't interest you?

Why would you do that Tuechter?

 

[teuchter]

Anarchist MP

That's exactly the kind of thing that could do with being explained to people though. Whether being an "anarchist" means that you would never get involved in any aspect of formal government at all, or whether you'd accept a compromise to that principle if it meant you had a more influential platform from which to promote whatever it is you want to promote.

I don't know the answer to that question.

I suspect it would depend on which anarchist you happened to ask.

 

[DotCommunist]

if this was 4chan I could shout 'Lurk the fuck moar'

 

[teuchter]

oh, sorry to hear that. What do you read about then? Things that don't interest you?

Why would you do that Tuechter?

Umm, I read about things that interest me. I don't read about things that don't interest me.

That is the crazy whacky way I lead my life.

 

[teuchter]

if this was 4chan I could shout 'Lurk the fuck moar'

A wee while ago I did a thread about how long it would take to read the whole of Urban75. I can't remember what the conclusion was, but I think the consensus was that it wasn't really practicable.

 

[DotCommunist]

Umm, I read about things that interest me. I don't read about things that don't interest me.

That is the crazy whacky way I lead my life.

Christ, wacky doesn't have an h.

 

[DotCommunist]

Dictionary is vague

I'll let you off. This once.

 

[phildwyer]

Usury. They should be addressing the issue of usury.

 

[teuchter]

Christ, wacky doesn't have an h.

But whacky does.

Which is whacky in itself.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

Not sure if I'm a 'narchist or not but any self proclaimed revolutionaries who are currently not calling for an immediate mass uprising against this fucking corporatist state monstrosity and the lynching of all the high priests of capital are reformist sell out filth and rightist opportunist scum imo.

 

[cesare]

That's exactly the kind of thing that could do with being explained to people though. Whether being an "anarchist" means that you would never get involved in any aspect of formal government at all, or whether you'd accept a compromise to that principle if it meant you had a more influential platform from which to promote whatever it is you want to promote.

I don't know the answer to that question.

I suspect it would depend on which anarchist you happened to ask.

I don't know the answer to that question either - but then, I'm not an anarchist.

My old style ideas about social justice don't seem to piss them off too much. They don't overtly criticise me too much for doing what I do. It's a bit individualistic (for the individuals and me) plus poacher/gamekeeper. But they are quite light hearted about the realities, the practicalities.

That's why I'm more sympathetic to them than any structured political party. It's a concept. It'll play out in lots of different ways.

 

[cesare]

Usury. They should be addressing the issue of usury.

Bit late for that lol

 

[phildwyer]

Bit late for that lol

Hardly. The ancient and medieval ethical and logical objections to usury have been completely and comprehensively vindicated. Now is the time to re-insert them into political practice.

 

[DotCommunist]

Hardly. The ancient and medieval ethical and logical objections to usury have been completely and comprehensively vindicated. Now is the time to re-insert them into political practice.

*mutters and rubs hands in a shylockish fashion*

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

A wee while ago I did a thread about how long it would take to read the whole of Urban75. I can't remember what the conclusion was, but I think the consensus was that it wasn't really practicable.

tl:dr

 

[phildwyer]

*mutters and rubs hands in a shylockish fashion*

And the first thing that needs to be done is to separate opposition to usury from anti-semitism. The association of usury with Judaism, though by no means devoid of historical legitimacy, is the single largest obstacle to repositioning usury at the forefront of popular politics.

 

[cesare]

And the first thing that needs to be done is to separate opposition to usury from anti-semitism. The association of usury with Judaism, though by no means devoid of historical legitimacy, is the single largest obstacle to repositioning usury at the forefront of popular politics.

If only someone would write a popular, accessible, yet sophisticated modern approach to the subject

 

[Barking_Mad]

id have thought anarchists attempting to involve local people in local issues would stand a better chance of success at the moment than at any time in the recent past. There is plenty of anger at the government and the economic institutions at the moment, and that would seem like a good chance to motivate people into doing more as individuals and as a local community.

Watching from the outside, i think Anarchism is sometimes its own worst enemy due to the fact it doesn't appear to do enough to spread the idea that people can organise issues for themselves. And in that vacuum the media insert the tired old label of violence and destruction. G20 being the case in point if reading the BBC and other mainstream media was anything to go buy. Oddly enough I think that end of the spectrum might get more sympathy now than at any other time...

 

[kyser_soze]

Address local issues as they need addressing by helping people self-organise stuff that will actually help them - local education projects, food purchasing and cooking collectives (people pool money to buy in bulk, swap actual cooking tips for example)...actually getting people used to the idea of having a degree of control over their lives and that they're capable of doing it themselves.

All the bullshit about mass revolution is whistling in the trees without getting people out of the idea that they need be dependent on external leadership to tell them what to do.

Re: usury...you can second track getting rid of it in the West by also destroying it's credibility in the East, especially China, where interest was being paid 500 years before the Jews were in Egypt...intreresting how the same idea emerged from two very different cultures, and you continue to ignore one of them completely...

 

[danny la rouge]

actually getting people used to the idea of having a degree of control over their lives and that they're capable of doing it themselves.

Indeed.