Italian election

Discussion in 'world politics, current affairs and news' started by brogdale, Feb 25, 2013.

  1. taffboy gwyrdd

    taffboy gwyrdd Embrace the confusion!

    Long shot but appreciate any answers. I'm wondering if The League / Northern League have any traceable lineage to the pro Mussolini fascists who continued to fight the socialists in Italy after the 2nd World War.

  2. taffboy gwyrdd

    taffboy gwyrdd Embrace the confusion!

    The death of liberal democracy aint much good if it's replaced with the far right shit that has been offered for years, here and elsewhere, as a fake alternative.

    In fact, the establishment offering fascism as an alternative when it is in crisis goes back a long way. Hitler, as one example, took power in coalition with conservatives (Bavarians).

    The hoaxing of significant sections of the working class into fascism (on top of a degree of bourgeois support) under the ruse of it being "anti establishment" and "populist" (one of the most lazily manipulated words of the current political lexicon) is not a tragedy to be celebrated.
  3. chilango

    chilango Neither Westminster nor Brussels....

    Short answer is no.
    tim, J Ed and taffboy gwyrdd like this.
  4. taffboy gwyrdd

    taffboy gwyrdd Embrace the confusion!

    Cheers Chilango.
  5. butchersapron

    butchersapron blood on the walls

    There are/were direct descendants of them openly organised as fascists groupings. They didn't need to spend 60 years hiding in some regionalist bloc. I think they were even represented in the 48 parliament. I fully expect to see pieces re-cycling them as the direct inheritors though.
    tim likes this.
  6. butchersapron

    butchersapron blood on the walls

    Can you point to a few contemporary examples of 'the establishment offering fascism' please?
    mather likes this.
  7. chilango

    chilango Neither Westminster nor Brussels....

    I mean we could go into the origins of the Lega and separatism in Northern Italy - the differences and similarities between Lombard/Venetian Nationalism and that of the Aosta valley and the South Tyrol.

    I'm not sure thats useful to you though?
  8. taffboy gwyrdd

    taffboy gwyrdd Embrace the confusion!

    The promotion of UKIP by the BBC accelerated after the 2008/9 crash.

    UKIP rhetoric has often crossed over with fascism, Young Independence have a fascist speaker lined up.

    Trump was initially adored by the mainstream press, including liberal press, less perhaps for his rancid politics than his PT Barnum vibe but nonetheless, they were promoting a man with the likes of Miller, Bannon, Sessions on his team.

    Socialism scares the establishment more than fascism, so they know which side to prefer in a crisis even if it's reluctant.

    Groups like AFD instinctively play on this, far right politics is the officially sanctioned "alternative".

    It's a standard enough dynamic Butchers.

    The establishment eventually went with Hitler, and he was notably admired by many in the English establishment as a counter-weight to socialism. Same dynamic.

    Even social democrats brought in Friekorps to put down socialist uprisings, perhaps a different case but inordinately stupid in the light of what followed.

    The CIA have promoted fascists as an alternative to the left in various places, Chile as just one example.

    The Conservative Party has links to Hitler apologists via Traditional Britain, who Mogg has consorted with (as well as Bannon of course). It is an extremely right wing party in many cases (which is partly how it managed to eventually scupper the NF)

    The elite billionaire propagandists who own British newspapers often push fascist themes and rhetoric (obsessive hatred of minorities, "enemies of the people" type stuff)

    This is all off the top of the head from various world locations over the last 80 or so years.

    If the pattern has escaped you I am extremely surprised.
  9. butchersapron

    butchersapron blood on the walls

    Can you point to a few contemporary examples of 'the establishment offering fascism' please?
    mather likes this.
  10. taffboy gwyrdd

    taffboy gwyrdd Embrace the confusion!

    Some of those examples are contemporary. I don't think for a minute you are as stupid as you are pretending to be, just pointlessly obtuse as usual.

    You ask a question I give a range of answers. You basically act like they don't exist. It's lame and I am sure you can do better, though I remain as mystified as ever regarding what you're seeking to achieve. Hope you're in good form and have a good day.
  11. taffboy gwyrdd

    taffboy gwyrdd Embrace the confusion!

    The whole anti "liberal elite" meme is classic hoax alternative bilge promoted by operatives and dupes of an authoritarian elite. Perhaps some people were too busy nit picking on here to notice what has been going on in British political discourse this decade.
  12. Rutita1

    Rutita1 Scum with no integrity, apparently.

    Gift from an Italian friend...

    maomao, Yossarian, kabbes and 7 others like this.
  13. Flavour

    Flavour hang the bankers

    Funnily enough, speaking of descendants of Mussolini fascism, the M5S leader Luigi Di maio's dad was an active member of MSI, inheritors of the "Republic of Salò" legacy in no uncertain terms and openly fash
  14. copliker

    copliker ...

    gawkrodger, yield and campanula like this.
  15. chilango

    chilango Neither Westminster nor Brussels....

    Good piece from Wu Ming. Ought to be obvious but still...

    And worth reading worth the likes of Trump and UKIP and Brexit in mind too. It's not the same, but...
  16. yield

    yield zero

    M5 Stelle & Lega Nord! Jesus wept. Wu Ming piece from 2013 is very good
  17. The39thStep

    The39thStep Well-Known Member

    Wasn't it the establishment who drove the BNP out of existence ?
    mather likes this.
  18. yield

    yield zero

    Italy's new PM nominee Giuseppe Conte begins forming cabinet
    AFP 24 May 2018
    Apparently part of the agreement between M5S and The League is "that unregistered Roma camps should be shut down."

    Old thread from 2010. Expulsions of Roma in Europe (France, Italy etc)
  19. Jeremiah18.17

    Jeremiah18.17 Well-Known Member

  20. redsquirrel

    redsquirrel This Machine Kills Progressives

    Even if there's a short term move back to "centrist" parties as many Italians go back to the devil they know, the long-term the beneficiaries of this are going to be groups like the League, or those with politics that are even nastier.

    This is the real attack on democracy, the Cambridge Analytica stuff is chaff compared to this.
    Last edited: May 28, 2018
    NoXion, sealion, yield and 6 others like this.
  21. J Ed

    J Ed Follow Back Pro Expropriation

    Nice to see Brussels re-affirming its commitment to democracy amongst its member states. Nevermind the medium or long term, what on earth can the short term goal be here?
    NoXion, gawkrodger, Radiatori and 8 others like this.
  22. SpookyFrank

    SpookyFrank We kill the flame

    To save the Italian people from themselves no doubt. Welcome to democratic liberal EUtopia :facepalm:
    NoXion, Radiatori, sealion and 2 others like this.
  23. Flavour

    Flavour hang the bankers

    Disastrous move by Mattarella. This will backfire. There will be open protest to a technocrat government this time, unlike when Monti was brought in, and it will only strengthen Lega at the next elections, as this just confirms all of the eurosceptic stuff that M5S and Lega are pushing. They know this, of course.
    NoXion likes this.
  24. The39thStep

    The39thStep Well-Known Member

    Italy is currently learning that “There can be no democratic choice against the European treaties”, in the words of Jean-Claude Juncker.
    gawkrodger, sealion, yield and 3 others like this.
  25. redsquirrel

    redsquirrel This Machine Kills Progressives

    New elections to be held.
    EDIT: Actually that might be bad reporting by the Guardian, BBC has
    Last edited: May 28, 2018
  26. Jeremiah18.17

    Jeremiah18.17 Well-Known Member

    Latest polling (and yes, I know, polls etc) shows a complete electoral eclipse of left - compromised centrists of PD at 19 percent, social democratic split at less than 3, rest of left and Communists not even visible. EUphile establishment mishandling continuing. Whole system in crisis and far right Lega eroding lead of populist 5 Star. Open fascists polling ahead of social democratic split from PD.
    Depressing and dangerous.

    New poll by SWG for La7

    5 Stars 29.5%
    Lega 27.5%
    PD 19.4%
    Forza Italia 8.0%
    Brothers of Italy 3.8%
    Free and Equals 2.7%

    Read more: Italian general election 2018 | Vote UK Forum
  27. Combustible

    Combustible Well-Known Member

    Flawless logic as ever

  28. J Ed

    J Ed Follow Back Pro Expropriation

    Hope that dead ender remainers take a good, hard look at this. Except I suppose that they will, and like always they will draw exactly the wrong conclusion.
    mather, NoXion, Omaplata and 3 others like this.
  29. J Ed

    J Ed Follow Back Pro Expropriation

    MS5 clearly worried that their support will go to Lega during the next election.

    Subscribe to read
  30. Threshers_Flail

    Threshers_Flail Well-Known Member

    You got a non paywall link?

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