Israel's response to Katyushas
- Thread starter Spion
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revol68
what, fucking what?
jæd said:I'd be expecting them to at least camoflage themselves... But I thought someone said it was hard to spot a Hezbollah rocket launcher from a F16...?
Well the only fottage i've seen of the rocket launches was from the country side.
it's interesting though, on one hand Israel is claiming that Hezbullah are using civilians for cover for the rocket attacks, yet they never fuck up about how hezbullah has made outposts and networks of tunnels all throughout the South Lebanese countryside.
Of course the joke being that if Israel wanted to stop the katyushas it only has to stop bombing Lebanon.
Not that Israel wants to actually stop the katyushas as they provide a pseudo legitimsation for the retaking of Southern Lebanon.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
Suez, anyone?
revol68
what, fucking what?
moono said:
Well quite, hence they hope to get in an international force which they will no doubt have to "reinforce" as it lacks a cutting edge etc.
Also it's not exactly bad for the Israeli state to have a wolverine at it's door, i mean anytime there is an internal crisis just externalise on to the "terrorists", hey presto national unity and a nice boost to the armnaments industry, even better when the said enemy is Iranian and Syrian backed.
"Better shut up you self hating Jew, you don't want Iran running us into the tide?".
revol68 said:
Good to know Isreali intelligence is relying on you for their targetting...
revol68 said:
A bit like the one about not firing rockets into an aggressive and strongly independent state, armed to the teeth with American hardware...!
revol68 said:
Oh, and when was invading Southern Lebanon ever the aim...? Or are you confused with incursion vs invasion...? And I'd be interested what the reaction would be if you told the Isreali populatation that their government doesn't mind Hezbollah taking pot shots at them...!
TAE: "The Israeli Govt. was lying when it said it was not planning a ground invasion of Lebanon." First, I have never heard that denied it. Reference? Secondly, even if they were not , hitting the infrastructure is still a pre-requisite to a medium to large scale air deployment, albeit with different [and less] objectives.
Panda: "BM-24s." True, they could be there. We have daily Intel briefings and the BMs have never even been mentiioned. I am going back for a push into the northern part of the Western Sector of the fire zone and I can guarantee none are there unless for some crazy reason they were to move some. There could always be some up in upper Beka'a but I think they would have made mention of it since it si a mobile implement.
Moono: "The tank crew died in Lebanon. 35 feet into Lebanon." What? What tank crew? Are you confusing Gaza with this incident? There was no tank crew on the border Moono. There were 8 men in two vehichles. One was just a Humvee. The other was an M113. They were tanks more than 60 years ago but are nothing of the sort now. They are simply [shitty, very, very shittty] APCs. So, on the sand track at least 100 meters onto Israel's side of the fortified border, you have an M113 and Humvee tooling along on routine border patrol between Zar'it and Sh'tula. The Hezbollah operatives cut through the wire [somebody in Israel is paying for that one] on the sensor and cut through the double razor wire to get onto the sandtrack.
From there they fired a phosphorous round into the M113 and gave the 5occupants a very gruseome death. The AKS turned on the jeep and killed the driver and badly wounded his two passengers. The two passengers were carried into Lebanon. HEZBOLLAH INVADED ISRAELI TERRITORY.
"Capture of Zionist tank crew was in support of their 'Palestinian' brothers." What? Where do you get this stuff? Although Hezbollah is the talk of the twon in the territories, especially in Gaza where the groups parapephna is the hottest selling items, Hezbollah is not concerned with Sunna in a land it considers part of Syria anyway. I think at the very least you need to do some rudimentary research into the whole thing.
"Buffer zone the other way around." Funny, not even the UN buys that one.
Xenon: "How inflicting damage in Lebanon makes Israel more secure." In the short term it is a no-brainer. Remove Hezbollah from 15 miles north of the border and 99 persent of Israelis living north of Hafia no longer have to worry about a missile slapping them in the face as they layu in bed.
In the long term of course it will just fuel more rhetoric and action but that will happen anyway. Sad to say, there will never be total p[eace in the region, unless Israel ceases to exist and even then therr will still be plenty of conflict.
I do not know if you ever read the book "Vengance" by George Jonas [cousin of mom so I must throw it in]. In this supposedly non-fiction retelling of one of the first Kidron Squads [Israeli assasins] after the Munich Massacarre, when a leader of one of the teams asks his Katza [like supervisor I guess you could say] what the purpose of taking out individual terrorists solves since other invariably spring up, alot of times worse than their predecessor [Carlos the Jackal replaced Boudia who was more into theater than actual acts although he too had blood on him]...
The Katza says, "You clip your fingernails don't you? What is the point? They keep growing back..." The answer then is that it is to manage the problem, to somewhat contain it since you can never completely rid yourself of it. I do firmly agree with this line of thinking. If left unchecked Hezbollah would become a monster of gargantuan porportions.
At yesterday's Address to the K'nesset, Olmert said as much when he said [I am paraphrasing here] "We should all be thankful that we are fighting Hezbollah now and not in 2 or 3 years." Hezbollah, with less than 4,000 Regulars is offering such a fight with only 6 years of preperation.
Nino: Yes, Israel does get a good deal of armaments from America. It is paying for them through the nose by the way., as well as having riders on their use oand chain of possesion. Not exactly a "beachhead." On the other hand, Syria, since the old man died, has opened up its stores to Hezbollah and there is little if any money behind the acquisitions. Same goes for Iran although Iran is keeping the group on a tight leash as to what they can utilise the dontated goods for. The Zel -3 for instance. We are told Hezbollah is itching in a bad way to fire one of those at us but Iran will not permit such an escalation.
The relationships between American and Israel is much different than the ones between Hezbollah and Iran and Syria. There is no American Intel looking over our shoulder, plotting trajectories. Iran to this day has Revolutionary Guards in Lebanon and I imgine there is no need to discuss Syrian Intel .
JAED: It is hard to spot anything on the ground in an F16, especially at low altitude flyovers in between artillery swipes.
Revol68: "Israel claiming how Hezbollah uses civilians for cover b ut then talking about a network of tunnels throughout the countryside." Well, I recommend a rudimentary look at some maps of the region [Lebanon south of the Litani River]. Lebanon is a tiny nation. Its rural areas are never more than an hour from a medium sized population center [barring disasters and war of course then turning it into a much longer journey].
The tunnels all involve villages. Bint J'bail for example where we are still taking it house by house is filled with tunnels.
Why would you think Israel ceasing its bombings in Lebanon would mean that all Katyushas fired towards Israel would stop? Do you think Israels aerial raids iniated the Hezbollah missile and rocket barrages?
Furthermore, why the hell would Israel "want to retake southern Lebanon?" If there was a peaceful fronteir I assure you noone would care about that land except Syria which by the way still claims all of Lebanon as its own.
I do not know how to break this to you but there was no "internal crisis" prior to this deployment. Israel did not need a dog and pony show.
Panda: "BM-24s." True, they could be there. We have daily Intel briefings and the BMs have never even been mentiioned. I am going back for a push into the northern part of the Western Sector of the fire zone and I can guarantee none are there unless for some crazy reason they were to move some. There could always be some up in upper Beka'a but I think they would have made mention of it since it si a mobile implement.
Moono: "The tank crew died in Lebanon. 35 feet into Lebanon." What? What tank crew? Are you confusing Gaza with this incident? There was no tank crew on the border Moono. There were 8 men in two vehichles. One was just a Humvee. The other was an M113. They were tanks more than 60 years ago but are nothing of the sort now. They are simply [shitty, very, very shittty] APCs. So, on the sand track at least 100 meters onto Israel's side of the fortified border, you have an M113 and Humvee tooling along on routine border patrol between Zar'it and Sh'tula. The Hezbollah operatives cut through the wire [somebody in Israel is paying for that one] on the sensor and cut through the double razor wire to get onto the sandtrack.
From there they fired a phosphorous round into the M113 and gave the 5occupants a very gruseome death. The AKS turned on the jeep and killed the driver and badly wounded his two passengers. The two passengers were carried into Lebanon. HEZBOLLAH INVADED ISRAELI TERRITORY.
"Capture of Zionist tank crew was in support of their 'Palestinian' brothers." What? Where do you get this stuff? Although Hezbollah is the talk of the twon in the territories, especially in Gaza where the groups parapephna is the hottest selling items, Hezbollah is not concerned with Sunna in a land it considers part of Syria anyway. I think at the very least you need to do some rudimentary research into the whole thing.
"Buffer zone the other way around." Funny, not even the UN buys that one.
Xenon: "How inflicting damage in Lebanon makes Israel more secure." In the short term it is a no-brainer. Remove Hezbollah from 15 miles north of the border and 99 persent of Israelis living north of Hafia no longer have to worry about a missile slapping them in the face as they layu in bed.
In the long term of course it will just fuel more rhetoric and action but that will happen anyway. Sad to say, there will never be total p[eace in the region, unless Israel ceases to exist and even then therr will still be plenty of conflict.
I do not know if you ever read the book "Vengance" by George Jonas [cousin of mom so I must throw it in]. In this supposedly non-fiction retelling of one of the first Kidron Squads [Israeli assasins] after the Munich Massacarre, when a leader of one of the teams asks his Katza [like supervisor I guess you could say] what the purpose of taking out individual terrorists solves since other invariably spring up, alot of times worse than their predecessor [Carlos the Jackal replaced Boudia who was more into theater than actual acts although he too had blood on him]...
The Katza says, "You clip your fingernails don't you? What is the point? They keep growing back..." The answer then is that it is to manage the problem, to somewhat contain it since you can never completely rid yourself of it. I do firmly agree with this line of thinking. If left unchecked Hezbollah would become a monster of gargantuan porportions.
At yesterday's Address to the K'nesset, Olmert said as much when he said [I am paraphrasing here] "We should all be thankful that we are fighting Hezbollah now and not in 2 or 3 years." Hezbollah, with less than 4,000 Regulars is offering such a fight with only 6 years of preperation.
Nino: Yes, Israel does get a good deal of armaments from America. It is paying for them through the nose by the way., as well as having riders on their use oand chain of possesion. Not exactly a "beachhead." On the other hand, Syria, since the old man died, has opened up its stores to Hezbollah and there is little if any money behind the acquisitions. Same goes for Iran although Iran is keeping the group on a tight leash as to what they can utilise the dontated goods for. The Zel -3 for instance. We are told Hezbollah is itching in a bad way to fire one of those at us but Iran will not permit such an escalation.
The relationships between American and Israel is much different than the ones between Hezbollah and Iran and Syria. There is no American Intel looking over our shoulder, plotting trajectories. Iran to this day has Revolutionary Guards in Lebanon and I imgine there is no need to discuss Syrian Intel .
JAED: It is hard to spot anything on the ground in an F16, especially at low altitude flyovers in between artillery swipes.
Revol68: "Israel claiming how Hezbollah uses civilians for cover b ut then talking about a network of tunnels throughout the countryside." Well, I recommend a rudimentary look at some maps of the region [Lebanon south of the Litani River]. Lebanon is a tiny nation. Its rural areas are never more than an hour from a medium sized population center [barring disasters and war of course then turning it into a much longer journey].
The tunnels all involve villages. Bint J'bail for example where we are still taking it house by house is filled with tunnels.
Why would you think Israel ceasing its bombings in Lebanon would mean that all Katyushas fired towards Israel would stop? Do you think Israels aerial raids iniated the Hezbollah missile and rocket barrages?
Furthermore, why the hell would Israel "want to retake southern Lebanon?" If there was a peaceful fronteir I assure you noone would care about that land except Syria which by the way still claims all of Lebanon as its own.
I do not know how to break this to you but there was no "internal crisis" prior to this deployment. Israel did not need a dog and pony show.
revol68
what, fucking what?
Sorry when did the barrage of rockets on Israeli cities start?
As far as I'm able to find the only case of a Katyusha rocket being fired into Israel, was at Mt Hermon (actually annexed by Israel from Syria), and even then it was at an IDF military base.
And considering Hezbullah has said numerous times that it will stop the Katyusha attacks if Israel stops the air strikes.
I love how the Israeli apologists are trying to fixiate on the Katyusha's as if that was the cause. It seems you forget that Israels stated reason was the capture of two of it's soldiers.
And as George Monbiot wrote in the Guardian (i actully hate the cunt , but he's correct on this point).
Now Israel can keep dreaming of wiping out Hizbullah but that is as retarded as Hizbullah's rhetoric of wiping out Israel, it's just bluster. Unfortunately the Israeli's seem to believe their own rhetoric, or more than likely this is just another episode of lashing out, designed to send a message to it's neighbours and to bring to US closer to it, especially in regards Iran.
And I'm pretty certain that the the Israeli military is quite pleased at the job the Katyusha rockets are having in solidifying public support, likewise Hezbullah will only grow stronger. Of course only a cynic would ever believe that the two groups fed off each other.
Also coming from Northern Ireland I can assure you that if the Brits had reacted to IRA bombings in the manner of the IDF their would still be a brutal war on today, and Britain would have had no security.
p.s. When I said retake it, i meant vis a vis an international force after they had despersed the Shia population and Hezbullah (somethig they can dream of). Infact the IDF is carrying out one of the most blatant acts of ethnic cleansing that has ever been beamed live into living rooms.
As far as I'm able to find the only case of a Katyusha rocket being fired into Israel, was at Mt Hermon (actually annexed by Israel from Syria), and even then it was at an IDF military base.
And considering Hezbullah has said numerous times that it will stop the Katyusha attacks if Israel stops the air strikes.
I love how the Israeli apologists are trying to fixiate on the Katyusha's as if that was the cause. It seems you forget that Israels stated reason was the capture of two of it's soldiers.
And as George Monbiot wrote in the Guardian (i actully hate the cunt , but he's correct on this point).
Now Israel can keep dreaming of wiping out Hizbullah but that is as retarded as Hizbullah's rhetoric of wiping out Israel, it's just bluster. Unfortunately the Israeli's seem to believe their own rhetoric, or more than likely this is just another episode of lashing out, designed to send a message to it's neighbours and to bring to US closer to it, especially in regards Iran.
And I'm pretty certain that the the Israeli military is quite pleased at the job the Katyusha rockets are having in solidifying public support, likewise Hezbullah will only grow stronger. Of course only a cynic would ever believe that the two groups fed off each other.
Also coming from Northern Ireland I can assure you that if the Brits had reacted to IRA bombings in the manner of the IDF their would still be a brutal war on today, and Britain would have had no security.
p.s. When I said retake it, i meant vis a vis an international force after they had despersed the Shia population and Hezbullah (somethig they can dream of). Infact the IDF is carrying out one of the most blatant acts of ethnic cleansing that has ever been beamed live into living rooms.
Spion
I hear ya
There's no point in arguing the who-flung-what-first thing. The zionists are thieves and racists. They've had chance after chance over the decades to put right the wrong they caused - by letting the refugees return to thier properties - but they're determined to hang onto their stockade. They've sown the seeds for a lot of hatred.
revol68
what, fucking what?
This i think sums the heart of the matter, security is always for the Israeli's. God forbid an Israeli would be within reach of a Hezbulllah rocket, I mean obviously the Lebanese don't mind being within reach of Israeli F-16's, having to listen to them break the sound barrier overhead, Israels very own secular Angel of Death is actually a nice little distraction for the Arab's, afterall they aren't as important as G-d's own people.
What fucking disgustingly racist shit you spill, but it is this racism that lies at the heart of Israeli policy in the region. The Arabs are nothing more than a problem to be dealt with, they are not people with hopes, desires and dreams but "vermin" who need to be kept in check.
Maybe a better metaphor is the IDF as an imbecile trying to keep the tide out from it's sand castle with a pitch fork?
Maybe it's time to deal with legacy of 1948? or maybe just keep your head in the sand, whilst the whole region descends into barbarism and Israeli society a militarist disgrace to the millions who died in another man's "nail cutting".
You sick fuck!
Revol68: "When did the [Hezbollah] barrage on Israeli cities start?" The current wave began in the middle of June, everyday and culminated with the kidnapping on July 12th...which by the way took after a Hezbollah missile strike on 2 cities, injuring5, crippling one that very morning. It did NOT begin after Israel responded. In fact, Israel responded less to the kidnapping [on this scale] than to the constant rocket/misslie attacks from Hezbollah.
As far as you are able to find? Ha, you need to do a bit more looking . It is not difficult. In fact, Moono made the same claim as you yesterday and I shut him down. that thread should be on the board. In fact I think it was earlier in this very thread [ha], check it for some intersting facts and that as I said is only for the day the men were kidnapped [not saying anything of the preceeding 19 days of attacks].
Why is it so impossible for you to understand that BOTH the soldiers AND the missiles are the reason for this conflict? The kidnapping was merely the fiurative straw.
"Dreaming of wiping out Hezbollah." Um, actually, if civlians were not being pushed in front of Hezbollah they would have been wiped out more than a week ago. There are less than 4000 of them. We have a million men. Do you really think it is that difficult to annihilate them? I fought them both in the 80s and now and I can samy while their training level has surely improved they are still not soldiers by any stretch of the word. Hell, they arer not even as good as most PIJ I was fighting in Nablus my first week back. At least PIJ dont lay down on the floor and beg not to be beaten or shot when you corner them.
The IRA abnd the Brits has nothing at all in common with anything in this dynamic. The Irish aactually have justification for their struggle [just not their methodology].
I do think you need to educate yourself as to the definition of the phrase "ethnic cleansing." WEhen one entity perfoms this henious act it is in hope of having another entity, them or a client, fill the vacancy. In this case Israel [aside from a buffer zone wihic will still be inhabited by Lebanese] will not be housing any Israeli troops and never any civilians.
"G-D's own people." Israel is a secular state, with no official religion. If you do not know this, you should not be talking about Israel AT ALL.
Spion: I notice that you like most, when confronted with facts, shut down. I have explained in detail why you are incorrect and all you can do is repeat your claim. How about qualifying it? When renumeration was offered under UN supervion [4th time telling you this], how did Israel steal it? In fact, beyond the money, Israel actually allowed those that wished to, to return IF they affirm their loyalty to the new state. There was no theft.
"Racist this and that." Almost 20% of Israel's population are Arab. They have full and equal civil and human rights. They are represented in government. they serve [in many cases with distinction] our military. I have 2 in my platoon. What racism are you talking about? Again, you seem to know precious little about our country...even the very basic things.
The end of your post illustrates what type of person you are, sadly. You do not know me, never met me. You use expletives and disparage me. I still deal with you civliy. This is the way of the world. I suggest you alleviate somw of that very juvenile frustration by researching your so called "opinions" so that you might be able to restore your self esteem in an adult manner [without needing to attempot belittling a faceless person in cyber space].
As far as you are able to find? Ha, you need to do a bit more looking . It is not difficult. In fact, Moono made the same claim as you yesterday and I shut him down. that thread should be on the board. In fact I think it was earlier in this very thread [ha], check it for some intersting facts and that as I said is only for the day the men were kidnapped [not saying anything of the preceeding 19 days of attacks].
Why is it so impossible for you to understand that BOTH the soldiers AND the missiles are the reason for this conflict? The kidnapping was merely the fiurative straw.
"Dreaming of wiping out Hezbollah." Um, actually, if civlians were not being pushed in front of Hezbollah they would have been wiped out more than a week ago. There are less than 4000 of them. We have a million men. Do you really think it is that difficult to annihilate them? I fought them both in the 80s and now and I can samy while their training level has surely improved they are still not soldiers by any stretch of the word. Hell, they arer not even as good as most PIJ I was fighting in Nablus my first week back. At least PIJ dont lay down on the floor and beg not to be beaten or shot when you corner them.
The IRA abnd the Brits has nothing at all in common with anything in this dynamic. The Irish aactually have justification for their struggle [just not their methodology].
I do think you need to educate yourself as to the definition of the phrase "ethnic cleansing." WEhen one entity perfoms this henious act it is in hope of having another entity, them or a client, fill the vacancy. In this case Israel [aside from a buffer zone wihic will still be inhabited by Lebanese] will not be housing any Israeli troops and never any civilians.
"G-D's own people." Israel is a secular state, with no official religion. If you do not know this, you should not be talking about Israel AT ALL.
Spion: I notice that you like most, when confronted with facts, shut down. I have explained in detail why you are incorrect and all you can do is repeat your claim. How about qualifying it? When renumeration was offered under UN supervion [4th time telling you this], how did Israel steal it? In fact, beyond the money, Israel actually allowed those that wished to, to return IF they affirm their loyalty to the new state. There was no theft.
"Racist this and that." Almost 20% of Israel's population are Arab. They have full and equal civil and human rights. They are represented in government. they serve [in many cases with distinction] our military. I have 2 in my platoon. What racism are you talking about? Again, you seem to know precious little about our country...even the very basic things.
The end of your post illustrates what type of person you are, sadly. You do not know me, never met me. You use expletives and disparage me. I still deal with you civliy. This is the way of the world. I suggest you alleviate somw of that very juvenile frustration by researching your so called "opinions" so that you might be able to restore your self esteem in an adult manner [without needing to attempot belittling a faceless person in cyber space].
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