Israelis storm Jericho gaol

[nino_savatte]

I think the EU (a significant proportion of which is UK funded) has reacted positively to Hamas's success, trying to find a way to carry on funding projects supporting the Palestinian people whilst struggling to find a way not to fund a political movement with the professed aim to wipe a sovereign nation which the EU recognises off the map. What else should they have done?

Now, because the Israelis are aggressively targeting these (innocent until proven guilty) militants in Jericho, and the US and UK have pulled their people to quite possibly save their lives under crossfire, European targets are being attacked. Who exactly is being unreasonable here?

X-77. From the comments from that Galloway board:


One thing I will agree is that it's a huge mess.

No response yet from PSC BTW.

Hmmmm, I think this is a culmination of the sabre-rattling rhetorc of the last month or so. I reckon the US and UK pulled their people out of there on the advice of Israel. The timing here is quite important imv.

 

[tangentlama]

an Israeli Govt. spokesman said the Israelis were doing something "which any sovereign nation is entitled to do" or words to that effect.

what other 'explanations' have people heard from Israel for this act?

 

[nino_savatte]

Completely unbelievable. What are they on?

 

[TAE]

All very easy to condemn, but the UK and the US have been complaining to the PA about the security situation there for a long time. The PA were warned that the wardens would be withdrawn if there was no improvement.

I find it just a tad of a coincidence that the IDF move in just as the US/UK wardens move out. Do you have any links about these long standing security concerns?

 

[Col_Buendia]

This is from the current BBC article - pure newspeak genius:

BBC correspondent David Chazan says the raid has sparked a major diplomatic crisis between Britain, the US and the Palestinians.

Shurely shome mistake? Surely the crisis should be between the unprovoked aggression of Israel and the... ah, fuck it, what's the use of reason against bulldozers & tanks

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4804424.stm

 

[slaar]

Hmmmm, I think this is a culmination of the sabre-rattling rhetorc of the last month or so. I reckon the US and UK pulled their people out of there on the advice of Israel. The timing here is quite important imv.

I've no doubt the Israelis were talking with the Brits, but then I've no doubt the PA were too. This is from the Guardian blog:

The Palestinian Authority removed the security detail from the British and American jailers of Saadat and Shobaki because, with a Hamas government imminent, security cooperation with Israel is being downgraded in such public areas as the incarceration of these two terrorists (though not in less public areas). Saadat's PFLP is a prime candidate to join Hamas' coalition; freeing him could be part of some sort of coalition deal.

Now if this is true, then the fact that this is being spun into a rant against the US and UK when it should be a rant against Israeli aggression, the Palestinians freeing somebody who arguably should be on trial for an assassination, or in general against the situation in the region, is disgraceful. Or should foreign observers now put themselves up as martyrs too?

 

[nino_savatte]

I've no doubt the Israelis were talking with the Brits, but then I've no doubt the PA were too. This is from the Guardian blog:

Now if this is true, then the fact that this is being spun into a rant against the US and UK when it should be a rant against Israeli aggression, the Palestinians freeing somebody who arguably should be on trial for an assassination, or in general against the situation in the region, is disgraceful. Or should foreign observers now put themselves up as martyrs too?

In my mind, the US, UK and Israel are all culpable.

But who said anything about foreign observers being put up for martyrdom?

The tourism minister who was assassinated was no shrinking violent in his hatred of anyone darker skinned than him. Of course I am not condoning assassinations per se but the word "causality" seems rather apposite here.

 

[tangentlama]

A rightwing Israeli minister was shot dead in a Jerusalem hotel today by a suspected Palestinian gunman, prompting fresh fears for the shaky truce between Palestinians and Israelis that was agreed only three weeks ago.
The Syria-based Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine immediately claimed responsibility for murder of the far-right tourism minister, Rehavam Ze'evi.

Mr Ze'evi was shot three times in the head and neck at close range in the Hyatt Hotel, which is close to Palestinian areas in east Jerusalem, police said.
He arrived at Hadassa hospital without a heartbeat and doctors attempted to revive him, hospital spokeswoman Yael Bossem-Levy said.

In statements to Arab television stations, the group said the shooting was in retaliation for the death of the PFLP leader, Mustafa Zibri, who died in an Israeli rocket attack on August 27.

Israel said it killed Zibri because he had organised a series of car bombings carried out by the PFLP.

The Israeli prime minister, Ariel Sharon, said that after Ze'evi's assassination "everything had changed", and he held the Palestinian leader, Yasser Arafat, personally responsible for the murder.

The Palestinian Authority condemned the assassination, but laced the statement with a call for Israel to call off its policy of assassinating Palestinian leaders that Israel believes are responsible for terrorist attacks.

"We feel sorry about this assassination. We reject all forms of political assassinations," the Palestinian Authority's cabinet minister, Yasser Abed Rabbo, told Reuters news agency.

He added: "We want to put an end to this vicious cycle of killings, although Mr Ze'evi had adopted hostile positions and policies against our people. But we still consider that political assassination should not be the answer."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,575662,00.html

 

[tangentlama]

Ultra-nationalist leader Rehavam Ze'evi made a controversial tourist minister in Israel's coalition government.

The outspoken right-winger was brought into Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's national unity government earlier this year after his party's biggest showing in elections, only to tender his resignation about 48 hours before being shot in Jerusalem's Hyatt hotel Wednesday.

Ze'evi was not known for his work as tourist minister but instead for having "drawn a lot of animosity" during his political tenure for his approach to Palestinians and his political etiquette.

His nickname was Gandhi, because of the long Arab dress he wore during his underground days in the fight for independence against the British, but he displayed none of the Indian's pacificist traits.

The 75-year-old former army general who spoke Arabic took vehement anti-Arab positions in his years in parliament and had supported a "transfer" policy of expelling Palestinians from Israel.

The Jerusalem-born minister opposed Israeli-Palestinian interim peace agreements and handed in his resignation after Sharon decided to ease restrictions on the Palestinian population and withdraw troops from a Palestinian-ruled area of the West Bank.

In April, Ze'evi called on the military to destroy Palestinian National Authority President Yasser Arafat's house as a way to force him to reconsider whether to go on fighting Israel.

Observers say Ze'evi -- who had been a member of parliament for 13 years and was chairman of the right-wing Moledet Party -- enjoyed the rough and tumble of parliament, opposing moves to sanitise debate rhetoric.

"Parliament is not a manners school," Ze'evi said amid attempts to curb insults heard in the Knesset. The forthright politician sparked controversy in July for referring to Palestinians working and living illegally in Israel as "lice" and a "cancer."

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/meast/10/17/israel.zeevi.profile/index.html?related

Ze'evi was leader of Moledat Party in Israel, who Moledet and advocates the transfer of the Palestinian population out of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip.

 

[nino_savatte]

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/meast/10/17/israel.zeevi.profile/index.html?related

Ze'evi was leader of Moledat Party in Israel, who Moledet and advocates the transfer of the Palestinian population out of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip.

That's the bugger.

 

[nino_savatte]

BBC News 24 have reported that Saadat has surrendered.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4806714.stm

 

[tangentlama]

That's the bugger.

i'll quote again:

Ze'evi was leader of Moledat Party in Israel, who Moledet and advocates the transfer of the Palestinian population out of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip.
http://archives.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/meast/10/17/israel.zeevi.profile/index.html?related

and more:

Ze'evi was not your normal right-wing Zionist who believes Arafat is a thug and no peace with the Palestinians is possible any time soon. When he was killed, he was in the process of resigning in protest from the Sharon government, which he accused of appeasement of the Palestinians. Last summer he created a small media stir by describing the Palestinians as illegal aliens who ought to be gotten rid of "the same way you get rid of lice." He was an open advocate of expelling all Palestinians from the West Bank and Gaza, so Israel could establish an Arab-free state in the entire territory allocated to the two peoples.
http://www.antiwar.com/mcconnell/mc012902.html

The enthusiasm of some mainstream Jewish organizations for the street-naming proposal may be the latest sign of what communal leaders say is a new era in which it is no longer verboten for American Jews to discuss, or in some cases promote, Ze'evs platform of 'transfer.' The term 'transfer' has come to refer to the mass removal of Palestinians from the West Bank and Gaza to other Arab countries by means that Ze'evi himself was often vague enough. Most mainstream Jewish groups, from left to right, historically have rejected the doctrine as immoral."
http://www.forward.com/issues/2001/01.10.19/news2.html

 

[tangentlama]

ynetnews.com

 

[Fullyplumped]

Jack Straw's statement to the Commons, 14 March 2006 -

Jericho Monitoring Mission

The Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs (Mr. Jack Straw): I would like to inform the House that the UK and the US withdrew our monitors from the Jericho Monitoring Mission on 14 March.

As I made clear in my statement to the House on 29 April 2002, Official Report, column 668, it is the prime responsibility of the Palestinian Authority to ensure the personal security of the United States and United Kingdom monitors.

Over the last months it has become increasingly clear that the Palestinian Authority is unable to do this.

The UK and the US have repeatedly raised our concerns over the security of our monitors with the Palestinian Authority and urged them to meet their obligations under the Ramallah agreement. Unfortunately, there has been no improvement.

We therefore issued a joint US/UK letter to President Abbas on 8 March 2006.

This letter said that we would have to terminate our involvement with the mission if the Palestinian Authority did not immediately either fully comply with the Ramallah Agreement (which sets out monitoring arrangements) and make substantive improvements to the security of the monitors or come to a new agreement with the Government of Israel.

As required by the Ramallah Agreement we informed the Israeli Authorities that we were delivering a letter in these terms. I have placed a copy of this letter in the Library of the House.

The Palestinian Authority has consistently failed to meet its obligations under the Ramallah Agreement. Ultimately the safety of our personnel has to take precedence.

It is with regret that I have to inform the House that these conditions have not been met and we have terminated our involvement with the mission today, 14 March 2006.

 

[MikeMcc]

how exactly is a temporay administration which has been enforced to continue under the auspises of power have any hope in hell of controlling anything with out full legislative power??

the PA was set up to last 6 months until elections were held when a formal palestinian govt could be sworn in, they are in effect the technical equiverlent to a village hall commity they were never intended to have to make guarentees for the safty of the international community becuase they were intended to be gone by now, had isreal not continued is bashment of palestinie and it's people and had holloywood, the usa and numebr of others not continueally deliberately undermined the whole process it'd be likely that hamas wouldn't have won at all...

the reason hamas got in is fundamentally becuase the palestinian peoples were fed up with being goverened by the PA as they were always considered a transitional from the PLO to a Palestinian legitimate goverement... when this process was deleiberately derailed by the west and isreal then it's no wonder that sooner or later the majority of palestinians are goign to turn around and say fuck this let's go back to what we had...

But they could have provided security for a relatively small group that were in a precarious position carrying out a task under international agreement, but they didn't. I'll quite happily slate BLiar and Neue Arbeit for a whole host of cock-ups, sleeze and general ineptitude. In this case there is a history to back up what they are claiming, unless anybody is going to say that there was collusion with the Israelis going back months to engineer this.

 

[MikeMcc]

I find it just a tad of a coincidence that the IDF move in just as the US/UK wardens move out. Do you have any links about these long standing security concerns?

From the Independent

...The British Government insisted it had repeatedly - and fruitlessly - raised with the Palestinian Authority violations of the 2002 agreement under which Saadat and other prisoners were held under international supervision. Mr Straw published a joint letter sent by the US and UK consul generals to President Abbas on 8 March in which they warned that the security monitors would be withdrawn unless their safety was protected. ...

Another from the Independent again

...The Foreign Secretary had been urged by his own officials to withdraw the monitors last year but refused because he did not believe that the threat then was so great. ...

The Chicago Tribune this time

...However a letter sent this month to Abbas by the American and British consuls-general in Jerusalem accused the Palestinian Authority of lax enforcement of prison standards, saying it had "failed to comply with core provisions of the Jericho monitoring arrangements regarding visitors, cell searches, telephone access and correspondence. ..."

2002 BBC story on the repercussions of trying to release the central character.

The Palestinian court ruled on Tuesday that there was no evidence against Mr Shobaki, endorsing the findings of a commission of inquiry set up by Mr Arafat following the affair.

Israel has reacted angrily to the decision, saying it violated agreements.

"The revolving door policy is still in effect. They [the Palestinians] arrest in one door and let out in the other door," said Raanan Gissin, an advisor to Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon.

He said Israel would have the right to "pursue" Mr Shobaki if he was freed.

Aides to Mr Arafat, however, said the prisoner was unlikely to be released.

"If we remove Shobaki from where he is right now, he may be abducted or killed by the Israelis," Palestinian chief negotiator Saeb Erekat said.

 

[tangentlama]

Did the Tv News name the man who Saadat was accused of calling for the assassination of? BBC News 24, SkyNews and CNN have not, as far as I can make out, mentioned that it was the extreme minority right-wing pro-Greater Israel, pro-Palestinian Arab 'transfer' Ze'evi who had resigned as a Cabinet Minister of Tourism, due to differences which Sharon on the Monday, and was assassinated later on that week, on the day he was to end his cabinet ministry in what was announced to be a retaliation for the illegal assassination of the PFLP leader.

 

[nino_savatte]

Jack Straw's statement to the Commons, 14 March 2006 -

Jericho Monitoring Mission

The Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs (Mr. Jack Straw): I would like to inform the House that the UK and the US withdrew our monitors from the Jericho Monitoring Mission on 14 March.

As I made clear in my statement to the House on 29 April 2002, Official Report, column 668, it is the prime responsibility of the Palestinian Authority to ensure the personal security of the United States and United Kingdom monitors.

Over the last months it has become increasingly clear that the Palestinian Authority is unable to do this.

The UK and the US have repeatedly raised our concerns over the security of our monitors with the Palestinian Authority and urged them to meet their obligations under the Ramallah agreement. Unfortunately, there has been no improvement.

We therefore issued a joint US/UK letter to President Abbas on 8 March 2006.

This letter said that we would have to terminate our involvement with the mission if the Palestinian Authority did not immediately either fully comply with the Ramallah Agreement (which sets out monitoring arrangements) and make substantive improvements to the security of the monitors or come to a new agreement with the Government of Israel.

As required by the Ramallah Agreement we informed the Israeli Authorities that we were delivering a letter in these terms. I have placed a copy of this letter in the Library of the House.

The Palestinian Authority has consistently failed to meet its obligations under the Ramallah Agreement. Ultimately the safety of our personnel has to take precedence.

It is with regret that I have to inform the House that these conditions have not been met and we have terminated our involvement with the mission today, 14 March 2006.

Have you nothing of your own to add to this? This is the statement and not a response to any of the questions raised by Kilfoyle and others.

 

[nino_savatte]

Did the Tv News name the man who Saadat was accused of calling for the assassination of? BBC News 24, SkyNews and CNN have not, as far as I can make out, mentioned that it was the extreme minority right-wing pro-Greater Israel, pro-Palestinian Arab 'transfer' Ze'evi who had resigned as a Cabinet Minister of Tourism, due to differences which Sharon on the Monday, and was assassinated later on that week, on the day he was to end his cabinet ministry in what was announced to be a retaliation for the illegal assassination of the PFLP leader.

TV news has been rather reluctant to actually name him.

 

[X-77]

Did the Tv News name the man who Saadat was accused of calling for the assassination of? BBC News 24, SkyNews and CNN have not, as far as I can make out, mentioned that it was the extreme minority right-wing pro-Greater Israel, pro-Palestinian Arab 'transfer' Ze'evi who had resigned as a Cabinet Minister of Tourism, due to differences which Sharon on the Monday, and was assassinated later on that week, on the day he was to end his cabinet ministry in what was announced to be a retaliation for the illegal assassination of the PFLP leader.

from the guardian article you link to:

Despite his job title, Mr Ze'evi rarely commented on tourism and was known for his hardline positions against the Palestinians. He had called for the "transfer" of all Arabs and Palestinians from Israel and had sparked controversy in July for referring to Palestinians working and living illegally in Israel as "lice" and a "cancer".

sounds like a lovely man, I'm sure he's sorely missed

 

[moono]

Right.

Col;

ah, fuck it, what's the use of reason against bulldozers & tanks

It can ensure that neither has any drivers. Don't let up.

 

[tangentlama]

US have threatened to veto UN condemnation on the Jericho raid.
How many vetos is that for condemnation of Israeli devastation against Palestine/ians?

U.S. may veto bid for UN condemnation of jail siege
The threat of a U.S. veto hovers over planned closed-door deliberations Wednesday over Qatar's bid for a UN Security Council to condemn Israel's Jericho jail siege and its capture of the killers of former cabinet minister Rehavam Ze'evi http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/694459.html

 

[X-77]

US have threatened to veto UN condemnation on the Jericho raid.
How many vetos is that for condemnation of Israeli devastation against Palestine/ians?

way too many to keep track of, that's for sure

 

[spring-peeper]

US have threatened to veto UN condemnation on the Jericho raid.
How many vetos is that for condemnation of Israeli devastation against Palestine/ians?

I don't think that Israel or the United States really cares what the UN thinks - unless it is in their favour.

I think that the last time Israel cared and respected a UN decision was when the UN created Israel, but I could be wrong.

 

[nino_savatte]

US have threatened to veto UN condemnation on the Jericho raid.
How many vetos is that for condemnation of Israeli devastation against Palestine/ians?

Typical. The US craps on about "freedom, democracy, human rights and the rule of law" as if it actually practised these things itself. Yet when the time comes to stand up and be counted it is nowhere to be seen but behind Israel.

 

[slaar]

Looks like the PFLP aren't blaming the US and UK. I think collusion is the least likely possibility:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,251-2087235,00.html

The mood on the streets of the occupied territories was still angry, but some of the rage was now being directed towards Mr Abbas. "There is a lot of anger here but we must remain united among ourselves," said Wissam Rafidi, a PFLP central committee member, who addressed one of the rallies in Ramallah. "It’s clear that the British and Americans told the Palestinian Authority that they were leaving but the PA didn’t tell us. President Abbas must explain what happened and why it happened."

On the veto, it's not exactly news that the US are going to veto a censure against the Israelis; it's clearly driven by domestic constituencies.

 

[moono]

On the veto, it's not exactly news that the US are going to veto a censure against the Israelis; it's clearly driven by domestic constituencies.

America, according to a recent speech by Rice, is admitting its mistakes in the Middle East and turning a new leaf. This might be a good test of the weight of that leaf.

US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice has delivered a forceful call for democratic reform in the Arab World in a major policy speech in Cairo. The US pursuit of stability in the Middle East at the expense of democracy had "achieved neither", she admitted. "Now, we are taking a different course. We are supporting the democratic aspirations of all people," she said. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4109902.stm

Incidentally, I just discovered buzztracker.
http://www.buzztracker.org/index.html
Pretty useful.

 

[tangentlama]

12th Anniversary

echoes of Goldstein, wouldn't you say? this is Purim, ffs.

Baruch Goldstein, who murdered 29 mosque attendees in 1994,called the Arabs 'Amalek', but Muslim talk of Haman (Amon?) in the Qu'ran. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haman_(Islam).

ynetnews, like Goldstein, uses 'Amalek' as metaphor for Hamas and Fatah and Palestinians.

Their OP thought that Spielberg missed the point when he portrayed Munich Murders, and that

"he was not able to distinguish between terrorist and victim." saying: " Spielberg completely forgets the moral, historical context. He does not remember Amalek."

But here, the distinction is drawn. Muslims are cousins, also children of Abraham, and 'Amalek' has risen again, and is out to kill them too, or at least that same spirit of murderous genocide.
Unmasking Purm

 

[cemertyone]

Interestingly the Isreali`s have told reporters this Friday that the U.S. and the U.K. DID tell them that they would be withdrawing their monitors. They left at 9.20 and the IDF was there ten minutes later....make your own mind up on that.

 

[moono]

Lol ! I didn't need Israeli confirmation.

What happened to post #58, tl ? I was interested in the Amalek theory.