tangentlama
Nameless voices crying
what music do you listen to, rachamim?
Israelis Push the Button
- Thread starter Fullyplumped
- Start date
Tangent: Fact of the matter is, non-Jewish Israelis ARE NOT treated differently than Jewish Israelis in ALMOST ALL cases. There ARE indeed terrible exceptions. I will touch upoon the terrible case of an Arab boy who upon reaching military age not only opted to serve but wished to serve as a fighter pilot. to this day, non-Jews are forbidden to do so, the assumption being that a non-Jew might defect with a highly epensive and sensitive plane/. It is a terrible policy and have gone on record as such so I can state it here. In his case, he got a consolation prive, trained as a tanker.
There is also the current case of the Arab Cabinet Minister who is being handed a portfolio that gives him direct oversight of our space program. 2 other MKs have demanded a security vetting in addition to the ones all MKs endure. I, as does the MK in question, find it highly offensive and racist.
However, on a whole, institutionalised racism does NOT exist in Israel. Equal rights are enshrined in our Basic Law [equivalent of the Constitution].
"Pork in salami." Wrong, sort of. Only in non-kosher salami Tangent. We have perfectly good beef salami, my fave being Hebrew National [love the garlic].
I did not say the LEFT was totally gone, only that it has shrunken to the point of being ineffectual. This country is as RIGHT as I have ever seen it.
I commend you Tangent, you have great taste in Israeli music. I personally cannot stand any Western sounding music with Hebrew lyrics...save Trance of course [which drives my wife crazy].
As for being offended, I tell you why. Simply, I abhor all Western influence upon our culture and if for some reason morons insist on taking part in a European contest, more power to them but I do not involve myself with it. Last telecast I saw was with the transsexual. After that I had had my fill. Talk about corrupting Jewish culture.
You are incorrect about Israeli Jews trying to deny the Arabic aspects of Israeli culture. Any Hebrew speaker will have to admit that almost all our idioms are Arabic, all our curses, and etc. the cultures feed off each other. I rememeber when I was a kid, Egyptians , Lebanese, and Syrians would watch our t.v. cause it was better and listen to our radio in both lanagues. Girls even had Israeli posters on their walls and for a minute, social scientests were saying this was how peace would eventually surface, through the arts. Of course they were wrong but for that minute I was so glad hearted...almost as I was during Oslo I.
I am a Revisionist Tangent, and non, we do not deny our Middle Eastern roots. We cherish them and hold them deare. however, we are quick to discern between those roots that are truly Jewish and those that are clearly Arab. Revisionism basically revolves around proactive defence. Nothing more, nothing less.
Subversplat: Beef salami is very common in America also. you know over there, they outlawed most air dried products. Salami, real salami, is air dried and covered in white bacterium. Instead they use kosher salami because of the safety factor so maybe Tipex is American rooted or just liked Kosher salami as do I [yumyum now I am hungry].
Moono: You still make no sense because there NO LAWS giving Jews an advantage, except with regard to new immigration. Yet Arabs still do immigrate to Israel. Bet you had no idea on that one.
There is also the current case of the Arab Cabinet Minister who is being handed a portfolio that gives him direct oversight of our space program. 2 other MKs have demanded a security vetting in addition to the ones all MKs endure. I, as does the MK in question, find it highly offensive and racist.
However, on a whole, institutionalised racism does NOT exist in Israel. Equal rights are enshrined in our Basic Law [equivalent of the Constitution].
"Pork in salami." Wrong, sort of. Only in non-kosher salami Tangent. We have perfectly good beef salami, my fave being Hebrew National [love the garlic].
I did not say the LEFT was totally gone, only that it has shrunken to the point of being ineffectual. This country is as RIGHT as I have ever seen it.
I commend you Tangent, you have great taste in Israeli music. I personally cannot stand any Western sounding music with Hebrew lyrics...save Trance of course [which drives my wife crazy].
As for being offended, I tell you why. Simply, I abhor all Western influence upon our culture and if for some reason morons insist on taking part in a European contest, more power to them but I do not involve myself with it. Last telecast I saw was with the transsexual. After that I had had my fill. Talk about corrupting Jewish culture.
You are incorrect about Israeli Jews trying to deny the Arabic aspects of Israeli culture. Any Hebrew speaker will have to admit that almost all our idioms are Arabic, all our curses, and etc. the cultures feed off each other. I rememeber when I was a kid, Egyptians , Lebanese, and Syrians would watch our t.v. cause it was better and listen to our radio in both lanagues. Girls even had Israeli posters on their walls and for a minute, social scientests were saying this was how peace would eventually surface, through the arts. Of course they were wrong but for that minute I was so glad hearted...almost as I was during Oslo I.
I am a Revisionist Tangent, and non, we do not deny our Middle Eastern roots. We cherish them and hold them deare. however, we are quick to discern between those roots that are truly Jewish and those that are clearly Arab. Revisionism basically revolves around proactive defence. Nothing more, nothing less.
Subversplat: Beef salami is very common in America also. you know over there, they outlawed most air dried products. Salami, real salami, is air dried and covered in white bacterium. Instead they use kosher salami because of the safety factor so maybe Tipex is American rooted or just liked Kosher salami as do I [yumyum now I am hungry].
Moono: You still make no sense because there NO LAWS giving Jews an advantage, except with regard to new immigration. Yet Arabs still do immigrate to Israel. Bet you had no idea on that one.
Rocketman: Your discussion should have been held in the early 80s. My own Battaliom has a Charedi company and there is in formatrion as we speak, a second one. Many religious men now serve in the Army.
There are integrated groups who wish to help both sides see the light, or their version of the light. There schools, camps, and etc. However, it takes a whole lot more than that to get the two sides closer.
"American born Jews." Actually, many American born are just as much LEFT as there are RIGHT. Most RIGHT WINGERS come from Arab nations by the way.
Your Israeli friends are either lying to you, or have never even been there, or else left decades ago because there is virtuallyno left wing to speak of thanks to the war in Lebanon. The battle is between Centrism and Rightism. Plain and simple.
Tangent: I actually listen to all types but my favorite is Trance, not neccessarily Israeli. In Jewish music I favor Bessarabian like my mom was . I guess it just reminds me of her. You find it lumped in with Transylvanian and sometimes Rumanian. Of all Israelis, Ofra Chaza was my favorite [cannot belive she died from AIDs]. I have her boxed set I bought in Tel Avivi. Alot of shlock but the later stuff where she fused Mizrachi melodies with Zionist lyrics gets me going all the time. You?
There are integrated groups who wish to help both sides see the light, or their version of the light. There schools, camps, and etc. However, it takes a whole lot more than that to get the two sides closer.
"American born Jews." Actually, many American born are just as much LEFT as there are RIGHT. Most RIGHT WINGERS come from Arab nations by the way.
Your Israeli friends are either lying to you, or have never even been there, or else left decades ago because there is virtuallyno left wing to speak of thanks to the war in Lebanon. The battle is between Centrism and Rightism. Plain and simple.
Tangent: I actually listen to all types but my favorite is Trance, not neccessarily Israeli. In Jewish music I favor Bessarabian like my mom was . I guess it just reminds me of her. You find it lumped in with Transylvanian and sometimes Rumanian. Of all Israelis, Ofra Chaza was my favorite [cannot belive she died from AIDs]. I have her boxed set I bought in Tel Avivi. Alot of shlock but the later stuff where she fused Mizrachi melodies with Zionist lyrics gets me going all the time. You?
tangentlama
Nameless voices crying
you are the formulated polyamine adduct to rachamim's di-functional resinmoono said:
not music to anyones ears, but tacky before becoming stuck in a man-made rut
don't join the peace corp, will you
tangentlama
Nameless voices crying
No, Rach, I said "Do you realise how many jews in america are discriminated against because they have an 'arab look'? " - I wasn't talking about Israel. 
Fullyplumped
in a personal capacity
I see what you did there. You took his username and subtly altered it to make it sound sinister. That is very clever.moono said:
It is also against the rules of this forum.
Do enlighten me how I've misunderstood the analogy.rachamim18 said:
An while you are at it,you could also answer my question regarding human shields on this thread:
http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=198499
(post #3)
Perhaps we need a thread with outstanding answers.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Fullyplumped said:
You're making assumptions again.
Surprise surprise.
Perhaps, if you were a little more diligent, you'd have noticed that quite a few people have difficulty spelling Rachamim's name correctly, and that there's a distinct possibility that's what moono did.
But hey, much better to just go with your prejudices, eh hen?
Fullyplumped
in a personal capacity
Rachamim - his usernameViolentPanda said:
Rachamaim - added malevolence.
It hadn't occurred to me that Rachamim was a difficult name to spell and I hadn't noticed such a thing before. I suppose it might be difficult for some. But then I saw this -
- and all doubt was dispelled.Moono said:
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
In your opinion.Fullyplumped said:
Mmm, you're convinced by a post-occurrence bit of sarcasm, are you?
Are you quite sure you're not making some personal investment in your interpretation?
Bernie Gunther
Fundamentalist Druid
Fullyplumped
in a personal capacity
In who else's opinion should I express myself?ViolentPanda said:
- I'm feeling a lot of shame right now.ViolentPanda said:Mmm, you're convinced by a post-occurrence bit of sarcasm, are you? Are you quite sure you're not making some personal investment in your interpretation?
- I'm hearing that you feel a lot of shame.
- And I feel that you hear my shame.
- I'm feeling annoyance and frustration, but also tolerance.
- I feel validated by that.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Somebody with an ounce of wit, perhaps?Fullyplumped said:
Gracious, 2 of your 5 senses are malfunctioning.- I'm feeling a lot of shame right now.
- I'm hearing that you feel a lot of shame.
- And I feel that you hear my shame.
- I'm feeling annoyance and frustration, but also tolerance.
- I feel validated by that.
Perhaps you should consult a doctor.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
So you're a Jabotinsky-ite. We all know what a racist he was.
Revisionist Zionism is equivalent to racist nationalism.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
rachamim18 said:
What are you talking about?
My first post on this thread is on the second page. You're rather fond of making things up - aren't you?Tangent: It is an actual problem actually because I have heardso many cases of unobservant Jews being given the third degree when flying. My own dad was Arab looking not suprsing that boith groups are of the same stock. Then there were the cases post 9/11 when Israelis were rounded up as well and shipped off for open ended detention. I guess I should feel grateful for looking Irish, right?
Funny, here, out of uniform, people always assume I am a tourist.
TAE: I already DID answer that in THAT thread but for brevity's sake, here it goes again. The purpose of human shielding is to protect the soldier. That means you have the actor on the tip of your barrel, not 5 or 6 feet away and on an inclined plane like a flight of stairs.
Take it from a man with both Marksman and Sniper ratings that it would be ever so simple to take out the soldier or anyone in his squad ion that scenario. The actor sis nothing to protect the squad. All evidence points to a simple counter op and entry of premises. Upon entering all civvies are rounded up and placed in a closed and easily guarded room. Then the building is taken, room, by room, by room. All closets, drawers, and such. After this is done. All humint Intel is collected if any exists and the rest , after being ID checked and logged, are released from custody. Any humint is loaded and transported back to forward base for further interrogation.
It was in no way a "human shield."
Nino: Jabotinsky was no racist. Prior to the Nazi Era he did admire the tight formations of fascist militaries but it in no way coloured his ideology. Please study the man before condemning him. Acahad Ha Am was more influential on our movewment anyway since Jabotinsky died very early on.
Revisionism is simply Zionism without the Socialist mumbo-jumbo. We believe in Free Marketism, and a heavy dose od pro-activity when it comes to defence.
Funny, here, out of uniform, people always assume I am a tourist.
TAE: I already DID answer that in THAT thread but for brevity's sake, here it goes again. The purpose of human shielding is to protect the soldier. That means you have the actor on the tip of your barrel, not 5 or 6 feet away and on an inclined plane like a flight of stairs.
Take it from a man with both Marksman and Sniper ratings that it would be ever so simple to take out the soldier or anyone in his squad ion that scenario. The actor sis nothing to protect the squad. All evidence points to a simple counter op and entry of premises. Upon entering all civvies are rounded up and placed in a closed and easily guarded room. Then the building is taken, room, by room, by room. All closets, drawers, and such. After this is done. All humint Intel is collected if any exists and the rest , after being ID checked and logged, are released from custody. Any humint is loaded and transported back to forward base for further interrogation.
It was in no way a "human shield."
Nino: Jabotinsky was no racist. Prior to the Nazi Era he did admire the tight formations of fascist militaries but it in no way coloured his ideology. Please study the man before condemning him. Acahad Ha Am was more influential on our movewment anyway since Jabotinsky died very early on.
Revisionism is simply Zionism without the Socialist mumbo-jumbo. We believe in Free Marketism, and a heavy dose od pro-activity when it comes to defence.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
rachamim18 said:
Er, Jabotinsky was a racist and there are several quotes of his on the Internet where he is being overtly racist. I have read a great deal about Ze'ev.
No, Revisionist Zionism is extremely nationalistic in character and as such, carries with it, the germ of racial supremacy. You can try and argue that it "is simply Zionism without the Socialist mumbo-jumbo" but that's a lie.
My first post on this thread was on page 2. Get your shit correct (as Chuck D would say).
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
Not a racist - eh?
You clearly didn't even read my question, let alone answer it - though perhaps you thought it not a question at all:rachamim18 said:
http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=198499
"I'm quite sure that you once said that 'protecting soldiers' was never the purpose of the practice."
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