Israeli incursion 'broadest violation yet'

[ViolentPanda]

I have read a great many books, a large percentage of which concerned Ireland. I am married to an Irish girl, and have been many times to that country. I have spoken with a huge number of people, a great many of whom were Irish.

And yet you didn't know some fairl simple facts. Interesting.

Advice should be welcome before it's given.

True.

perhaps then you'll do everyone the favour of shutting the fuck up?

 

[Lock&Light]

perhaps then you'll do everyone the favour of shutting the fuck up?

Go boil yer heid in a bag.

 

[nino_savatte]

Mate, there's no "weaseling" about it, it's blatant dirty great lumps of horseshit, the kind of "chaff" that is spread to distract from such egregious acts of war as this incursion into northeast Lebanon.

Aye, true that.

 

[nino_savatte]

I don't understand how you can think that that analogy is apt. The Irish Government was in broad agreement with the British Government and was more than happy to work together to reduce arms trafficking and terrorism in general.

Such a like-minded approach is totally missing between Israel and Lebanon.

Which Irish government? The governments of De Valera or Haughey...or good auld Garret Fitzgerald?

The Irish example is apposite and you are going to have to provide more evidence to support your contention...if you are being serious about this, that is.

 

[big footed fred]

Sorry fred, but you're chuntering your habitual uninformed bollocks.

If Hezbollah were indeed re-arming then the correct and proper thing to do is to draw the attention of the government of Lebanon to it, not to invade sovereign territory.
.

The Lebanonese government had little effect on hez's attacks on israel before and so it is a fair bet they would do bugger all this time.
This only started as the Lebanonese government failed to stop hez in the first place. That or they just allowed it or even supported them.

 

[ViolentPanda]

The Lebanonese government had little effect on hez's attacks on israel before and so it is a fair bet they would do bugger all this time.
This only started as the Lebanonese government failed to stop hez in the first place. That or they just allowed it or even supported them.

Thats L-E-B-A-N-E-S-E, fred.

What the Lebanese government are or aren't willing to do isn't the point, what is the point is that if Israel as a state are allowed to mimic their sponsors in the US and abrogate principles of international law at will, to establish a precedent for doing so, then where does it stop?

As a nation-state Israel had a responsibility (as does every nation-state) to use the correct procedures (i.e. either direct or mediated diplomatic contact), they chose instead to use the "kidnap" as a VERY flimsy (even flimsier than Adolf's Polish adventure) casus belli.

Oh, by the way, all governments fail to stop "terrorist" groups. It's the nature of such organisations that even if you want to eradicate them, you can't. If a nation-state takes on guerrillas on their own terms they've already lost.

 

[lostexpectation]

so these weapons then huh?

i read a news report of some Iranian planes being flagged down in turkey on the way to syria but there was nothing dodgey on them.

thats th ereport I read...


this is the other report via jerusliam post via jihadwatch

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1154525915046&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull

??

so there were weapons on the plane? but thank you stopped them, riiiiiight...

I do wanna see them actually catch a weapons transfer...

 

[rachamim18]

ZAMB: I will try and be patient with you, not knowing your age, etc. Just because asn event takes place in another geographical area , it in no way negates a threat to an entity in adifferent locale. In this case, a group's attemtping to annihilate the State of Israel and everyone in it is a direct attempty at undermining its sovereignity.


Nino: Your analogy on Jordan entering Israel to deal with a threat to Jordanian security is inherently flawed. For starters, Israel has a well oiled security apparattus in place to deal with any such threat to Jordan and is well able to deal with it above board.

Lebanon conversely has an army that refuses to deploy [until this latest Resolution] below the Litani River and has been in the mind frame for 30 odd years.


BigFooted:The terms of the Cease Fire permit Israel to use deadly force if presented with an immiment threat of same.

Panda: Ba'albek is still this side of the Litani although certainly not in southern Lebanon. Actually, we were operating in 3 sectors and Ba'albek was in the Eastern. IT is, as you probably know, Hezbollah's heart. It is where it began and where its military wing is still ensconced.


"If Hezbollah was rearming the proper thing to do would be to bring it to the attention of the Lebanese Govt." YES! Because Heaven knows how effective and wiilling they are as to do deal with the issue!

 

[nino_savatte]

Nino: Your analogy on Jordan entering Israel to deal with a threat to Jordanian security is inherently flawed. For starters, Israel has a well oiled security apparattus in place to deal with any such threat to Jordan and is well able to deal with it above board.

Lebanon conversely has an army that refuses to deploy [until this latest Resolution] below the Litani River and has been in the mind frame for 30 odd years.

Your reply is inherently flawed and I could have used any number of examples. You are just trying to wriggle out of a tight corner.

 

[ViolentPanda]

"If Hezbollah was rearming the proper thing to do would be to bring it to the attention of the Lebanese Govt." YES! Because Heaven knows how effective and wiilling they are as to do deal with the issue!

Their willingness isn't the point, adherence to proper channels rather than mimicking the US and unilaterally deciding on armed solutions is necessary.
With each step the state of Israel takes from legality within an international framework, they weaken their own ability to have recourse to those laws.

If you want to live in a pariah state that's fine, because you can fuck off back to the US. Many millions of Israelis don't have that luxury.

 

[rachamim18]

Panda: OK, what channels? You forget that prior to that kidnapping, missiles had been launched almost dauily for almost 3 weeks. The kidnapping is just the straw that broke the figuratuive camel's back.

I can go back to the US? My primary citizenship is Israeli and in 3 years am giving up the American as my wife hates it there, as do I. So no, I do not have that alleged "luxury."

As for "most Israelis," all polls show that more than 95% fully supported the campaign, even "Peace Now," so wrong on that one.

 

[nino_savatte]

Panda: OK, what channels? You forget that prior to that kidnapping, missiles had been launched almost dauily for almost 3 weeks. The kidnapping is just the straw that broke the figuratuive camel's back.

I can go back to the US? My primary citizenship is Israeli and in 3 years am giving up the American as my wife hates it there, as do I. So no, I do not have that alleged "luxury."

As for "most Israelis," all polls show that more than 95% fully supported the campaign, even "Peace Now," so wrong on that one.

I detect some dishonesty here.

Odd how Olmert's poll ratings went through the floor towards the end - isn't it?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Panda: OK, what channels? You forget that prior to that kidnapping, missiles had been launched almost dauily for almost 3 weeks. The kidnapping is just the straw that broke the figuratuive camel's back.

Diplomatic channels.

I can go back to the US? My primary citizenship is Israeli and in 3 years am giving up the American as my wife hates it there, as do I. So no, I do not have that alleged "luxury."

So, you're giving up your US passport in 3 years, therefore you do have that luxury (unless you're some kind of mutant time-traveller).

As for "most Israelis," all polls show that more than 95% fully supported the campaign, even "Peace Now," so wrong on that one.

I don't believe I've mentioned support for the war.
Nope, just checked, I haven't. So what the fuck are you talking about? Do you even know?

 

[bluestreak]

Ceasefires and peace have never been synominous.

wow, i can quote a post of lock&light's that is actually very similar to something i would have said.

for waht reason did anyone expect israel to do anything that isn't advantageous to itself. they've gven the warning and made their point, they've smacked the hornets nest a few times confident that when it all kicks off they've got american backing and all the nice words in the world won't make the damndest bit of difference. they NEED to get iran off balance now, before iran consolidates its position in the middle east without an iraq or afghanistan around to squabble with. if iran consolidates and become the major power bloc in teh ME israel is fucked. so they need to draw them into a war of sorts before that happens in the hope that with american backing israel and us-led puppet states in iraq and afghanistan will be able to keep iran where they want them...

a bit gabbled but you know what i mean. israel is only "ceacefiring" because it suits it to do so.