Israeli government to cut off Gaza Strip electricity supply.

[rachamim18]

Self Hating Jews...A Jew even hating Israel has nothing to dow ith whether or not they hate themseves, even when they engage in hatred to the exclusion of anything else. What does make them self hating however, is when their own familes suffered through the Holocaust and they themselves then willingly associate with Holocaust Denialists.

When religious Jews who are prohibited from cuasing even indirect harm against their Jewish brothers and sisters then engages in alliances with the PLO and.or Iran, they too are self hating. I could go on but hope the distinction is clear.

Invisible: "HAMAS' judicial system is in pieces."Only for the last 18 months. What was the excuse before that? Have they come out and said they have a change of ehart and will prohibit all attacks on Israel? IF so THEN you might have a point. They have never cared and are inf act the main actors in the missile barrages so it is pointless consideration.

"Noone recognised their govt..." Maybe they read the HAMAS Charter? The one calling Jews animals and saying all Jews will die? Maybe they saw the human bombers taking Israeli infants to Paradise with them? HAMAS is illegal by both PA AND International Law simply for existing. You cannot fault the International Community IF it finally sees fit to pay more than lip service to International Law.

How can a state function without finances?" HAMAS began its governance with all the finances it needed and yet that did not change anything, did it? Funds are not available because much of those funds are used directly to finance brutal terrorism. Should Israel or anyone else faciliate such hatred? Why would Israel make it easier for a group to try and destroy it?

"US involved in the Fatah pusch.": And? HAMAS is illegal, it hates the US, and needs to be removed. Most "Palestinians" hate them now believe it or not. they run by sheer force of will and alot of guns and ammo.

"Do not the 'Palestinian' militants say the same thing about Israel." No, they do not. They do not ask Israel's govt to arrest or even impede human bombers. The Arabs commit these acts, not Israel. As I have stated many times, any Jew proven to have committed a crime against any Arab, is punished harshly by out govt. Any Arab committing a crime against any Israeli will NEVER even be sought for questioning. If he kills Israeli Jers he is actually lionised and celebrated. Bit of a difference.




It does not take an intact judicial system to stop something you yourself are doing.

 

[nino_savatte]

1. Who are you talking to?
2. What are you saying? Because your post looks like yet another emotional outburst.

 

[invisibleplanet]

"Accusations of anti-Jewishness always follow criticism of Israe or Zionism." Often they do . Although sch criticism is not automatically anti-Jewish, let us examine why the claim is made so often.
<snip>
And this is JUST the UN!!! I could fiill 50 threads with examples even more atrocious than this. Safe to say, there ARE times when criticism of Israel , and/or Zionism is nothing more than a flimsy veil for extreme bias and anti-Jewishness.

The singling out of Israel for comment need not be antisemitic.

I think it's time for you to accept that most of us here who discuss Israel's actions are both pro-Palestinian and pro-Israeli (please note, we're talking about people, not about state/govt/military).

And, ribono shel olam, isn’t it time to give the “the possible fueling of antisemitism” canard a rest? How many times has that one been used to stop us orthodox Jews from reporting to the police wife-beaters and rabbinical child-molesters?

On one point I agree with the speaker: the singling out of Israel for special punishment is not about “achieving a peaceful resolution of the conflict”. Rather, it is about achieving justice and dignity for a group that has been without it for too long a time, and, incidentally, for those of us who care, about taking care of Israel’s soul. The punishment is to rectify an intolerable situation that has festered since 1948, and especially since 1967, namely, the thwarting of the Palestinian's people right of self-determination, and the hell that they have had to endure as a result. The fact that other peoples, including my own, have suffered hell in the past, is entirely without relevance to this part of the story.

Once upon a time, two small boys, Pete and Paul, were fighting over a garment. Pete grabbed the garment, wrestled Paul to the ground, and sat on him, at first for days, then for months, finally for years. Pete had nothing against Paul personally. He even made sure that he had enough to eat and drink to stay alive. But Pete was afraid to get off Paul’s stomach, because whenever he did, Paul would start clawing at him, and Pete was scared, for himself and for the garment. He was even willing to share a bit of the garment with Paul – he certainly did not stand to gain by having to take care of Paul -- but how could he be sure that Paul wouldn’t use the opportunity to grab the garment from him, or worse, sit on him?

Whenever an onlooker started to rebuke Pete for sitting on Paul, he would say, “Why are you picking on me ? I am only sitting on the kid; he’s not dead or nothin… If you turn around, you will see plenty of people doing worse things.” And he was right; it was an awful neighborhood. Pete began to suspect that anybody who criticized him was really a friend or relative of Paul, or at least unwittingly gave him support. Because if he really cared about crime, why was he just going after Pete?

Pete was also right to be afraid of Paul. You see, Paul hated Pete and, aside from his getting his freedom and the garment, he would love nothing more than to see Pete dead for what he had suffered all these years. But instead of sending somebody for the police, or seeking outside help, of which he was always suspicious, Pete just kept sitting there on Paul.

And there he sits, to this day: holding on to the garment and defending himself from the accusations of the onlookers by saying, “Hey, I am willing to let the guy up, provided that he….”
http://themagneszionist.blogspot.com/2007/09/singling-out-israel-for-moral.html

We should return to the topic - Gazans are being collectively punished.
Will any industries/employment remain after this latest crush on both the people and the economy? What makes Israel think this will stop Qassam attacks? Isn't the rise in Qassam attacks directly linked to the prevention of Gazans from working in Sderot? Haven't the Qassam attacks also been linked to the killings of family members by IDF, not the 'extra-judicial assassinations' necessarily, but those who are murdered because they were 'there' - what Israel terms 'collatoral damage'? Does Israel offer compensation to the bereaved families of those who lost children/father/mother/grandparent by becoming 'collatoral damage' in these extra-judicial assassinations?

 

[DexterTCN]

Self Hating Jews...rantrantrant... the Holocaust and ...rantrantrant... Holocaust Denialists.

When religious Jews ...rantrantrant... PLO and.or Iran, they too are self hating. I could go on ...rantrantrant...

Invisible: "HAMAS' ...rantrantrant...

"...rantrantrant... "...rantrantrant... HAMAS...rantrantrant...

...rantrantrant... HAMAS ...rantrantrant...

"...rantrantrant... HAMAS is illegal, it hates the US,...rantrantrant...

"...rantrantrant... 'Palestinian' ...rantrantrant...

Edited, for brevity.

 

[hipipol]

Israel wishes to crush the Palestinian people to provide labour for the dirty shit they do not want to do. If a large or very large number end up dead during the process, well so be it. This cannot be confused with Nazis, who forced people to work for them TILL they dropped dead, Israel kills a load to encourage the opthers to work harder.
Nothing like the same

 

[invisibleplanet]

The Israeli govt. doesn't allow Palestinins to work in Israel. Israelis themselves DO illegally employ Palestinians however. Thus we have a situation where the Arabs are un-unionised, unrepresented, and have to hide away off the streets so they don't get dragged back to the Occupied Territories before they get paid.

 

[rachamim18]

For sure, the only reason why the Arabs do not have their nation by now, aside from their refusing to have it, is the violence they spew.

 

[invisibleplanet]

Ex-Minister Aloni: Barak should be tried by UN
Ronny Shaked
Yediot Aharonot
Nov. 1, 2007
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3466594,00.html

Defense minister most dangerous man in Israel, guilty of crimes against humanity, former education minister says.

Defense Minister Ehud Barak and former IDF Chief of Staff Dan Halutz should be tried at the International Court of Justice at The Hague for committing “crimes against humanity,” former Education Minister Shulamit Aloni says.

The former minister and leftist leader made the remarks in an interview with Zuheir Andreus, the managing director of Arab-Israeli newspaper Ma al-Ahdath.

Attorney general blocks controversial move to limit supply of electricity to Gaza in attempt to bring an end to rocket attacks against Israel, says defense establishment must present more solid case for such a move. Meanwhile however, proposals to sever economic, trade ties with Gaza approved

In the full interview, to be published Friday, Aloni slams the defense minister over the punitive measures he introduced in the Gaza Strip: “Collective punishment is an inhumane move. Ehud Barak is the most dangerous person in the State of Israel, because of his character, because he’s a man of war, and because of his arrogance.”

“He does all those extreme things because he thinks that he’s beating Bibi (Netanyahu) that way,” the former minister added.

Aloni also lashed out at former Chief of Staff Dan Halutz over claims that Israel used cluster bombs during the Second Lebanon War.

“Whoever uses cluster bombs in an area where civilians reside is a criminal in my mind,” Aloni said. “He should be put on trial here first, but if not here, then at the International Court of Justice.”

During the interview, the former minister said that a week ago she delivered a lecture at the National Security College and told officers: “Why are you making a big fuss over people with blood on their hands? Each one of you has blood on your hands. They throw bombs, and you throw bombs. You have airplanes, but they don’t, so they blow themselves up.”

Aloni said that one of those in attendance asked her: “You treat their blood like our blood?” The former minister reportedly responded: “Yes, it’s just as red.”

 

[Grandma Death]

For sure, the only reason why the Arabs do not have their nation by now, aside from their refusing to have it, is the violence they spew.

Pesky arabs eh rach

 

[rachamim18]

Invisible: I think that Israel is the only nation in the world where prominenet members of govt make such accusations against other prominent members. Luckily for those accused, there is no substance behind it, only political grandstanding.


Aloni is actually a realtive of mine, 2nd cousin sad to say, and I can offer that unless he has really changed in the last month or so, he does not believe that nonsense he is spewing, at all.

Electrcity is used to make bombs, to allow the HAMAS leadership to maintain its tenuous grasp over its terrifed demographic, and so on. Israel is not cutting Gaza's flow, it is cutting the flow FROM Israel TO Gaza. Bit fo9 a difference.

Even had it been Gazan infrastructure , Israel would not be violating International Law. Gaza exists in a perpetual state of conflict with Israel and in cases of war neutralising infrastructure is job one.

"Anyone using Clusters in residential areas..." Two things ignored here. I) Hezbollah who iniated the launching of such ordnance is illegal by nature so that any use of any ordnance is deemed illegal by International Law. II) Israel did not target residential areas, only areas heavily packed with Hezbollah operatives.International Law actually permits the using of both Clusters and ANY ordnance tailored for the objective. It also permits the inuccring of Collateral Damamge in pursuit of a legitmate military objective.

It might sound sexy and get International attention when you accuse confederates, or ex-confederates in the same govt. of War Crimes but it does not play in the areas in which it truly counts, the court of International Law as opposed to the court of public opinion.

 

[invisibleplanet]

Shulamit Aloni is a woman.

 

[invisibleplanet]

 

[rachamim18]

Indeed, and she is not my relative. I was thinking it was a person in the foreign ministry. Actually, I do not know why I added that personal aside as it has nothing to do with the subject. I guess I get tired of people acting as if they know these people when they do not. Anyway, thanks of course for pointing it out.

Anyway, I have not heard of HER, but would imagine she is no different than most Israeli politicians, indeed any anywhere. Trying to grandstand as they spit at others.

 

[cemertyone]

For sure, the only reason why the Arabs do not have their nation by now, aside from their refusing to have it, is the violence they spew.

Of course being under military occupation has nothing to do with it i suppose????? like the Brits in Ireland that`s just a small detail you always happen to miss out on telling people...

 

[nino_savatte]

Aloni is actually a realtive of mine, 2nd cousin sad to say

Indeed, and she is not my relative.

Whatever.

 

[rachamim18]

Cemerty:Unlike Brits, we are the indigenous people of THAT land, and Gaza and the "WB" as well. Occupation is the wrong word. to occupy one must be a foreign entity. The Arabs are from Arabia (of course). Were Israelis attempt to rule Arabia then you would be correct.

As for Israel maintaining a presence in the "WB," any more land gained by those Arabs should be considered a true gift and they should get down on knees and thank us. That sounds very harsh to you, it sounds uncaring, but it is reality. Dig anywhere there and you find Jews.

 

[Spion]

Cemerty:Unlike Brits, we are the indigenous people of THAT land, and Gaza and the "WB" as well.

I didn't realise indigenous meant 'arriving on a boat or an aeroplane in the last 60 years.' Thanks for the definition

 

[rachamim18]

No, indigenous means having arrived on foot 4500 years ago. The fact that SOME Jews came from foreign lands where their familes had ended up after Exile does not change a thing. My father's family was in the Hebron area for at least 920 odd years. Almost all Arabs arrived within the last 190 years (150 only being until the Holocaust).

Arabs get their name from...ARABIA. That is the land in which they are indigenous, actually only to Hejaz District but it is the rest of their Arab subjects' concern.

Jews get their name from JUDEA. Judea happens to stand on the majority of the "WB."

Hmmmm...

 

[Spion]

No, indigenous means having arrived on foot 4500 years ago. The fact that SOME Jews came from foreign lands where their familes had ended up after Exile does not change a thing.

oh, so now indegenous means 'arrived on foot a long time ago, left again, and arrived on planes and boats in the past 60 years'. This definition is literally fantastic.

 

[rachamim18]

No, wrong again. Indigenous means oldest original inhabitants. Pretty simple really.

 

[invisibleplanet]

No, wrong again. Indigenous means oldest original inhabitants. Pretty simple really.

Avram Avinu - his narrative fits an Amorite lineage. When he passed through Canaan on his way to Egypt (the first time) there were already Hittites on the land. How far were you thinking of going back¿

 

[Spion]

No, wrong again. Indigenous means oldest original inhabitants. Pretty simple really.

Yes, the concept of indigenous is simple - it means native to a land, the oldest inhabitants *existing* on that land, not, 'arrived in the past 60 years with some possible ancestors that were there once thousands of years ago for a little while'. By your definition we're all indigenous to the Rift Valley

 

[rachamim18]

Invisible: I guess you missed the poart about "living." Hittites have been extinct going on almost 3000 years. Avrham was from Mesopotamia , as were all Jews originally. however, of EXISTING groups who have settled the land in question, only Jews remain.

Spion: Again you are ignoring the Jews who never went into exile, like my father's family. They have been there 4500 years. In addition, ALyah began more than a century ago so 60 years is a non issue no matter how you consider it.

 

[invisibleplanet]

Actually, how many Amorites are living today?
Amorites were a people who migrated out of Arabia in the tail-end of the third millenium BCE, already speaking a semitic dialect, who then settled across the region from the Levant to the West of the Euphrates.

Avrham's personal journey began around 2000BCE with his movement from Ur to Haran (then in Assyria). From there, he moved through Canaan, stopping only to erect an altar, and to negotiate some grazing rights with "the Lord", then on past what is now Gaza, stopping for a short while, then on through Sinai into Egypt where he remained for sometime with his flock/tribe and presumably Hagar became his wife Sarai's handmaiden. Avrham then returned to re-enter Canaan, and this second time, he bought some land in Hebron, where he later buried his wife, and where he would later be buried. It was at Avraham's graveside where brothers Isaac and Ismail would become reconciled after years of separation.

 

[Spion]

Spion: Again you are ignoring the Jews who never went into exile,

No I'm not. They could be considered indigenous. The other few million who flew in or got a boat there in the last 60-80 years cannot

 

[invisibleplanet]

Back to the Topic:

Gaza electricity cuts suspended
Israel's attorney general has intervened to suspend plans to restrict electricity supplies to the Gaza Strip.

Israel has already begun reducing petrol and diesel supplies - it says the action is in response to rocket attacks by Palestinian militants.

The government's senior legal adviser said on Monday that ways of limiting the humanitarian effects of reducing the electricity supply had to be found.

UN chief Ban Ki-moon has called the plans punitive and unacceptable.

Attorney General Menachem Mazouz's decision came after a number of human rights groups criticised the proposed cutbacks as collective punishment of the Palestinian people.

Mr Mazouz did approve other restrictions, including on the supply of fuel to Gaza.

A range of such economic and political sanctions continue to cause daily hardship for Palestinians, our Jerusalem correspondent Mike Sergeant says.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7068956.stm

 

[invisibleplanet]

(BBC VIDEO REPORT) One family struggling to cope with the pressure of sanctions

The economy is almost defunct. 85% of businesses and factories are now closed.
No-one is working. No-one is paid. Food is extortionately priced.

The way that both Israel and the Gazan authorities are dealing with the rocket launchers is not working!

 

[rachamim18]

Invisible: "How many Amorites live today?": The answer of course is ZERO. Their culture died out millenia ago.

As for a Semitic language, Hebrew is the oldest in existence and Arabic sprang directly from it. They did not even have a written language until after the Common Era.

"Avraham began migrating around 2000 BCE.": Nope, almost all maimnsteam researchers say that if there was a shitorical Avraham then he must have heaed out of Mesopotamia no less than 2500 BCE. Jews actually settled the land in 2 successive but rather gradual waves so that it is seen as settlement by attrition and not via bloodshed.

"UN chief calls Israeli actions punative and unacceptable." moon does not put his daughter to sleep with a gas mask on her nightstand. Moon does not have to watch authorities scraping craniums and brasin matter off of sidewalks and cafe tables. All Moon need do though is to get the Arabs to enforce the Rule of Law.

Funny how he and most others remain mute as Qassams rain down daily, but cry foul when Israel moves to restrict electricity , electricity used to manufacture these shells, that allows Gazans to live unhindered so that they have no incentive to try and live legally.

I know, I know, laws only apply to Israelis.

I agree that the way Gaza and Israel are dealing with Qassams is not working. The Arabs do nothing and of course you get nothing from nothing. Israel should pound Gaza into the stone age but barring that,m and collateral dame does bar it, Israel is doing the best it can. It ceded the enitre area 2 plus years ago. Why did they not then mve towards a free nation? The ball was in their court. The International Community was begging them to take their money and what happened? Their ignorance and hatred won out as it always does.

Spion: If science shows us factually that the vast majority of todays Jews, both Ashkenazi and the rest, descend directly from the original Jewish inhabitants , then all Jews are considered as indigenous. Not having been born there does not change your genetic makeup.