Israeli child-murderers on a roll.

[nino_savatte]

Sorry it's a fault of mine. What I meant was I couldn't understand you q re me approving of the US supporting Israel .

AFAIC I worry about the consequences more than the politics of a situation. All I meant.

I was a bit peeved by what I saw as a huge leap in your conclusion.

I'll live

No danger.

 

[vimto]

Why don't they do something positive, and allow these refugees to settle in their countries and make something of their lives, instead of living forever in camps waiting for a "return" to their original land, which is just not going to happen in the foreseeable future.

Giles..

Sounds like BNP to me

 

[vimto]

Are you a facsist Giles?

 

[Giles]

Sounds like BNP to me

I don't understand. Why does this "sound like BNP"? All that I am suggesting is a way forward that doesn't condemn another generation of people to pointless and miserable lives in a situation that is never going to be solved as is.

Why am I now being accused of being a fascist?

Giles..

 

[Donna Ferentes]

But there is enough land, if you include some of the surrounding Muslim countries.

The best way for them to help their Muslim brothers would be to allow them to settle within their borders. There is room.

There's also plenty of room on, for instance, the West Bank. If there wasn't, Israel wouldn't always be building settlements there. On land nicked from the people it booted out.

It's a disgusting argument which rewards the ethnic cleansers and penalises the victims. Yo uwould never accept it if it applied to you.

 

[Giles]

There's also plenty of room on, for instance, the West Bank. If there wasn't, Israel wouldn't always be building settlements there. On land nicked from the people it booted out.

It's a disgusting argument which rewards the ethnic cleansers and penalises the victims. Yo uwould never accept it if it applied to you.

So, you think it better for another generation to waste their lives in a pointless tit-for-tat series of suicide bombings, shootings, reprisals, etc?

For how long? Forever?

Giles..

 

[Donna Ferentes]

If the "international community" were to oppose Israel rather than supporting her, then perhaps not too long.

But your argument rests on a fallacy. You think that if people are shipped off to (say) Jordan and resettled there, they'l say that's fine, we'll forget all about Palestine? Does not not occur to you that there are millions of Palestinians all over the Middle East in precisely that situation already? And do you you think they are all right with that?

As I say, you would never accept it yourself. If you were forcibly exiled you, and your children's children, would demand the right to return. But as ever, we expect of the Palestinians what we would never in a million years accept for ourselves.

 

[Giles]

If the "international community" were to oppose Israel rather than supporting her, then perhaps not too long.

But your argument rests on a fallacy. You think that if people are shipped off to (say) Jordan and resettled there, they'l say that's fine, we'll forget all about Palestine? Does not not occur to you that there are millions of Palestinians all over the Middle East in precisely that situation already? And do you you think they are all right with that?

As I say, you would never accept it yourself. If you were forcibly exiled you, and your children's children, would demand the right to return. But as ever, we expect of the Palestinians what we would never in a million years accept for ourselves.

But do you think that the Israelis are going to voluntarily give up their country now? Because I don't.

Giles..

 

[Donna Ferentes]

No, I don't either. Neither did the white South Africans - which model, by the way, surely represents the best hope for a solution.

But you can't resolve anything by saying "the thieves insist on keeping their booty so the victim's mates must provide".

 

[rogue yam]

If the "international community" were to oppose Israel rather than supporting her...

To withdraw Israel's support, and to replace it with opposition, would be to weaken Israel, of course. Do you honestly think that in the face of a weaker Israel that Hamas and other Islamist terrorists would be more likely to renounce violence and recognize Israel? Or is this not part of your plan?

 

[rogue yam]

No, I don't either. Neither did the white South Africans - which model, by the way, surely represents the best hope for a solution.

But you can't resolve anything by saying "the thieves insist on keeping their booty so the victim's mates must provide".

The South Africa situation was resolved with a one-state solution. South Africa has massive problems with crime, violence, disease and corruption and the future of that state is uncertain. Some want a one-state solution for Israel. The Israelis, with few exceptions, do not want a one-state solution. Do you want this for them? Do you seek somehow to impose this on them?

 

[nino_savatte]

To withdraw Israel's support, and to replace it with opposition, would be to weaken Israel, of course. Do you honestly think that in the face of a weaker Israel that Hamas and other Islamist terrorists would be more likely to renounce violence and recognize Israel? Or is this not part of your plan?

What the fuck are you talking about? You make it sound all so simple when, in fact, it is anything but simple.

Are all Palestinians "bomb throwing scum" in your eyes? Who has the armoured bulldozers? Not the Palestinians.

 

[nino_savatte]

The South Africa situation was resolved with a one-state solution. South Africa has massive problems with crime, violence, disease and corruption and the future of that state is uncertain. Some want a one-state solution for Israel. The Israelis, with few exceptions, do not want a one-state solution. Do you want this for them? Do you seek somehow to impose this on them?

SA could only be resolved one way. The one state solution does not necessarily mean that any future state is doomed to failure.

More white noise from an idiot Rapturist.

 

[Markyd]

No danger.

Cool

 

[Serguei]

So run along with your snide insinuations, you ugly-minded troll.

Name calling is what is left to those who loosing argument but don't what to accept it .

Why you cannot accept that Hamas, although it is fighting against State of Israel, are not the angels you are trying to tell us they are?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Name calling is what is left to those who loosing argument but don't what to accept it .

Why you cannot accept that Hamas, although it is fighting against State of Israel, are not the angels you are trying to tell us they are?

Please indicate where I've tried to tell anyone that Hamas are "angels".

Good luck in finding that non-existant reference, and thanks for proving in your reply to my post that you are prone to making snide insinuations.

 

[Manmasi]

img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/goisraelgo/MiddleEastMap.gif

 

[moono]

Try studying a real map;

http://lawrenceofcyberia.blogs.com/photos/maps/landloss.html

 

[ViolentPanda]

img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/goisraelgo/MiddleEastMap.gif

Rolling eyes and propaganda maps (and, as I recall, spurious emotionalist arguments) appear to be all you have.

How about REAL debate that desn't rely on you regurgitating Zionist propaganda?

 

[nino_savatte]

Rolling eyes and propaganda maps (and, as I recall, spurious emotionalist arguments) appear to be all you have.

How about REAL debate that desn't rely on you regurgitating Zionist propaganda?

Manmasi is a little reminscent of another poster who used to post up shite graphs and maps. He was also rather fond of the rolling eyes smiley.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Manmasi is a little reminscent of another poster who used to post up shite graphs and maps. He was also rather fond of the rolling eyes smiley.

Nah, I have no doubt Manmasi is not of PBman's nasty ilk, in fact I'm sure Manmasi is a serious and sincere person.
It's just that I'm cynical about Manmasi's desire to actually engage in a neutral debate on the subject because I recall a rather pathetic accusation that was leveled at me alongside a bit of (for want of a better word) hysteria because of their interpretation of something I wrote, despite me making clear that I meant something entirely different, and the fact that no other poster on that thread, even those I usually see as ideological opposites, made the same erroneous "interpretation" as Manmasi did.

I don't expect Manmasi to apologise for their calumny of me, but I do bear in mind that in posts on this subject Manmasi has a particular point of view and has been shown to defend it in a rather unorthodox and (IMO) accuracy-unbothered manner.

 

[Manmasi]

'Israeli child-murderers on a roll.'
It's that kind of provocative opening line that riles me. No idea who this other person I am supposed to be posting as is, I can assure you that I am posting, and quite proudly posting my oh-so-unfashionable views on this topic, only under one handle.
I am astounded at the naivety of posters on here. When will you wake up?When will you guys even start to even consider the other side? Years ago I sympathised with the Palestinian cause. No more. They have been treated, and have acted as infants wayyyyyyyy to long, that was how Arafat wanted it, and that's how it is, with Hamas now in power the Palestinians prove once more, they are their own worst enemy. Let's see. "The slogan of Hamas is "God is its target, the Prophet is its model, the Qur'an its constitution: Jihad is its path and death for the sake of God is the loftiest of its wishes." "there is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad." "The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharqad tree would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews."
Those are its official lines, hopeful, no? I can't abide the bloodthirsty nature of these people. Israel protects itself, as per map, as it's surrounded, struggling for its survival, against people who think like the above.
With those sort of views, what hope do we have? Who can negotiate with craziness on that level?
I hope the bleeding heart liberal fools of Europe will be as accomodating in the future as we are told by protesters on the streets in the UK that we are a 'cancer' etc and that we desrve another 9/11, 7/7 whatever, this problem is going to get much, much worse. I know who's side I'd rather be on, the one where women have rights and I can have gay friends who I can drink with and have an education as a female.

(Oh, I must try not to use smileys etc on here incase I appear to be some other hated poster!! (Dumb comment))

 

[Manmasi]

Maps

Well done Moono, that is indeed a map of Israel, mine showed a wider geographical area, I can see what you're getting at but it's a bit pointless really isn't it?

 

[moono]

No, it isn't pointless at all. What's left of Palestine after the ravages of the Zionists, if you'll allow the florid speech, has become the Muslim Alamo. You might attempt to portray Israel as bravely defending itself from the ignorant Islamic hordes surrounding it but those that see beyond this stale and ancient propaganda are telling you that it is the Palestinians who are wearing the clothes of the subjugated, dispossessed and murdered.

The Israelis deliberately targeted two Palestinian children, hence the topic heading. It has been their policy in the past, perhaps local, perhaps national, certainly ex-IOF soldiers have testified to it, and I have no reason to believe that things are any different now. The demographics of the area speak volumes and the killing of Palestinian children represents the futility of the Israeli situation. It also serves to inflame the Palestinians to violence and thus opportunes more Israeli extra-judicial executions.

I hope this has served to counter your efforts to portray Muslims as superstitious and mentally-defective throwbacks whose principal purpose in life is to fetch and carry on a Zionist housing estate.

 

[ViolentPanda]

'Israeli child-murderers on a roll.'
It's that kind of provocative opening line that riles me. No idea who this other person I am supposed to be posting as is, I can assure you that I am posting, and quite proudly posting my oh-so-unfashionable views on this topic, only under one handle.

Que?
Who has accused you of posting under a different "handle"?
As for the opening line, you're absolutely right, it is provocative, that's the whole idea, to draw people of whatever opinion into a debate.
You're not seriously telling me you've never seen any newspaper use a sensational take on a situation as a "headline", are you?

I am astounded at the naivety of posters on here. When will you wake up?When will you guys even start to even consider the other side? Years ago I sympathised with the Palestinian cause. No more. They have been treated, and have acted as infants wayyyyyyyy to long, that was how Arafat wanted it, and that's how it is, with Hamas now in power the Palestinians prove once more, they are their own worst enemy. Let's see. "The slogan of Hamas is "God is its target, the Prophet is its model, the Qur'an its constitution: Jihad is its path and death for the sake of God is the loftiest of its wishes." "there is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad." "The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharqad tree would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews."
Those are its official lines, hopeful, no? I can't abide the bloodthirsty nature of these people. Israel protects itself, as per map, as it's surrounded, struggling for its survival, against people who think like the above.
With those sort of views, what hope do we have? Who can negotiate with craziness on that level?

Mmmm, so the fact that Hamas have in fact already stepped outside of their charter by actually participating in a democratic election means nothing, isn't even worth giving credence to?

I hope the bleeding heart liberal fools of Europe will be as accomodating in the future as we are told by protesters on the streets in the UK that we are a 'cancer' etc and that we desrve another 9/11, 7/7 whatever, this problem is going to get much, much worse. I know who's side I'd rather be on, the one where women have rights and I can have gay friends who I can drink with and have an education as a female.

(Oh, I must try not to use smileys etc on here incase I appear to be some other hated poster!! (Dumb comment))

So you think the way to fight extremism is...what exactly, oh sage? Lock 'em up? Send 'em back to wherever they came from? Liquidate 'em?
Seems to me that's the corner you've painted yourself into, because your attitude certainly isn't one with any whiff of tolerance about it.

 

[moono]

Israeli soldiers kill Palestinian woman

Target practise. Can you wonder why Palestinians go into Israel to kill civilians ?