Israel Hezbollah prisoner swap.

[rachamim18]

Spion: "Occupation is at the root of this conflict.": OK, let us buy into your non-sensical argument for the moment. Why did Koontahr , a Lebanese Druse commit his atrocities? What do they have to do with "occupation?"

Did terrorism against Israel begin in 1967, the year "occupation" began?

What does "occupation" have to do with bashing toddlers heads in?

You do not make one iota of sense.

Tangent: " 'Palestinians' are not Holocaust Deniers.":Most happen to be, sorry. It is a fact. Organisationally this is also true. The PA is the one exception, but even within the PA one hears it so your unequiovocal statement is unqualified.

As for the "muesum" you believe exists, it is an office belonging to a single individual, a lawyer. Do you know why he has it? To prove that the Holocaust happened in Europe and so Jews should be living there. That is the man's logic. Even in the few pictures he hangs in his opffice, nice museum, it is nothing but selfishness and grandstanding propaganda. Even for that though he was threatened with death so much for the idea.

As for your rationilisation of Koontahrs atrocities, shame on you. The man sdid what he did. You say he never admitted doing it? I have seeen him on TV talking about it mroe than once so so much for THAT contention.

As for his age, Arabs reach maturity , and this pretains to Druse as well as much as they hate being called Arabs, at age 12 for males. Lebanese LAw also reflects this. Something you fail to comprehend over and over and over, IT IS NOT ENGLAND. NEVER WAS, NEVER WILL BE.

Examining things through the context of your own culture is pretty much worthless.

On one hand you tell us how he was held in an open prison, how he gained a university degree, then try and sell us some nonsense about Israel having not respected Lebanon's territory. Lebanon entered into Civil War and the ruling faction ASKED Israel to corss the border and help defend it against Syrian encroachments.

Talk about not respecting? Syria up until the present refuses to recognise Lebanon as a nation. It considerss all of Lebanon to be Syrian territory. Syria caused that Civil War in 1975. Israel did not cause it.

"The UN recognises...": The same UN that allows UNIFIL to aid and abet murder, to have Hezbollah rearm itself not once but twice, for Syria and Iran to both mainta up until the present, thousands of well armed troops and missile systems, want to keep going? Your logic is failed.

Tell us, how many Lebanese have been arrested in Syria for bashing in heads? How many freedom fighters are attacking Syria and its people? Israel is attacked for one reaosn and one reason only: IT IS JEWISH.

Was Jordan attacked when it annexed the so called "WB" and held it for 20 years? Egypt when it occupied Gaza for 20 years? Syria when it has occupied a good chunk of Lebanon for 30 odd years?

Only Israel is attacked. Not only is Israel the only one attacked, it is its inncoent women and children who are attacked, not only its soldiers.

"Israel gets nothing for handing over live prisoners? That is naive! Israel gets world wide press and sympathy...": Absolute and utter BS. Israel gains both without it. It neither attracts new sympathy nor alienates new opponents. It is par for the course. The only thing gained, are the corpses of two young Israeli soldiers.

Those two boys will not have conjugal visits, they will not attend university classes and gain a dimploma, they will not have Red Corss/Red Crescent care packages and family visits. They will simply lie in the ground after being horribly tortured and mutilated (wait! you did not know they had been tortured? Of course not, not by freedom fighting patriots).

So now Israel releasesd child murdering monsters to gain sympathy? As if that is all it took. Talk about being naive.

 

[rachamim18]

Tangent: "Many 'Palestinians' were pushed (sic) into Lebanon 12 years earlier with Israel taking E. Jerusalem and forcing people residing there to then have residency permits...": WRONG AGAIN. Number one, requiring a residency permit for E. Jerusalem was never an issue. Anyone legally residing there on the day Israel gained in 1967 was issued such a permit. Furthermore, they would , if they failed to qualify, then be able to live anywhere else in the so called "WB," and shortly thereafter, Gaza.


The number of "Palestinians" moving to Lebanon after 1949 was miniscule. In fact, other than "Deportees," (those being people that were BORN in Lebanon, or that had come into Israel Proper FROM Lebanon) there was virtually no movement north. Alot of THAT is probably due to the inherent Lebanese hatred of "Palestinians."


"Illegal nothern settlements...": In YOUR opinion anyway. In reality, Golan was never slated for annexation. They are temporary population centers to consolidate Israeli control of the sector.

This is one issue that benefits from subjective experience. Unless one actually sees the area they cannot appreciate Israeli concerns regarding it. Golan is a promonotory, a shelf actually, overlooking northern Galilee. Until 1967 Syria positioned artillery atop the shelf and simply aimed straight ahead and down. From 1948 until 1967 shelling was a way of life and many Israelis lost their lives.

Ironically, most people living in that sector of Israel Proper happen to be Israeli-Arabs and it was to protect them and other Israelis that Israel retained control of the territory. Israel has always said that it would gladly turn it over to Jordan, despite its rich water resources, but that it would require a formal peace deal from Syria to ensure the safety and well being of Israeli citizens living within range of Syrian guns. Pretty simple I think.

To date, Syria has not only refused, and has not only refused to recognise Israel's mere existence, but actually exists itself in a perpetual state of declared war!

Ergo, only fools and ignoramuses imagine Israel should return that highly valuable tactical area to a nation bent on the destruction of Israel.

"The first 'Palestinian' response to Israeli annexation of E. Jerualem was not violent....": Tangent, what year did Israel annex E. Jerusalem? You are casually using very important terminology. Israel had just captured the sector on the date in question. Annexed? Try 14 years later. It HAD been annxed though, by JORDAN. Funny thing there, noone ever heard people , let alone foreigners, complaining then, did they?

"Those E. Jerusalem Arabs away from home during Israel's taking of E. Jerusalem would have lost the ability to live there.": Yeahhhhh, you know this because? WRONG AGAIN. All one had to do was provide legal proof. Many did.


"People living in areas fgained by Israel in 1967 were of mixed religion and ethnicity.": Not really. in terms of overall demographics the vasyt majority were Muslim Arabs. To a lesser degree were Christian Arabs. BOTH ARABS. There was a tiny smattering, in E. Jerusalem, of various other groups but only a few hundred of each and only in the city. Also, in Golan one saw, and sees, a fair amount of Syrian Druse. And the point is?

 

[elbows]

Elbows: No. That is not a rationlisation. Hezbollah meets all definitions of a terrorist organisation. Whether or not it alo has a political arm is neither here nor there.

Terrorism remains a crime under International Law. In fact, Hezbollah's very existence is a direct violation of Lebanon's own law. The wold saw how everyone but Lebanese Shia felt when the county almost sank back into Civil War with the Telecom Crisis there.

Ergo, Hezbolah is not even representative of the nation, let alone a valid political organisation. One cannot even offr it the ratonalisaton used by friends of HAMAS (that because of its vast majority in elections it represents the bulk of society). IF the EU refuses to recognise HAMAS, how dos it recognise Hezbollah?

"In practice, the EU not recognising Hezbollah becauseof its terrorist status will not end the bloodletting,etc.": Who cares? The EU is violting International Law? There is right, and there is wrong. There is also a whole lot of gea but in this particular case it is cut and dry.

But rules and laws and labels are rarely applied evenly. They are applied for specific purposes, and if there are big enough reasons for not playing by the rules, there is a strong temptation to bend, ignore or break the rules. Sometimes countries can keep breaking rules without fear or serious repercussions, sometimes obvious contradictions are present, sometimes justice is seen to be done and sometimes everything stinks. Its rarely about right vs wrong, good vs evil. Its about who is in a position to bring about 'justice', and whether there is more perceived advantage to using the rules rather than ignoring them.

You know there are times when Israel breaks the rules, and you will be able to argue a case for why it was necessary to do so. So too the EU must have their reasons. I was speculating as to what they might be. Its clear you do not like the EU's stance, fair enough, but I am curious what you think the reasons are why they dont want to label Hezbollah terrorists? I doubt its because they feel none of Hezbollah's activities could ever be described as terroristic, so whats their actual motive?

As for the UN in the border region, I do not imagine it would be perfect, but simply that it would remove one of the excuses Hezbollah has for maintaining their current form.

 

[rachamim18]

Elbows: "Breaking rules, and Israeli doing so.": Here is the thing...Whether or not you feel Israel breaks something, the fact of the matter is as follows: Were Israel to actuaslly break any existing law, it would be brought to account post haste. The ICC is unable to charge Israel because law is not based on ideology (at least International Law at this time), but on actual indisputable fact.

People say Israel breaks laws by having citizens living in the so called "WEst Bank.": Problem with that is that their basis for argument is Geneva 1949, Article 49 and others. In reality though, Israel was the last sovereign power on that land. It is true that this was almost 2 millenia ago but it is also indisputably true that no other power has risen there. Arabs, the population said to be occupied, is neither indigenous to that land nor have they ever had a nation there (although it has existed as a forlorn province in more than one Arab Caliphate).

Something most Westerners fail to realise is that most Arabs have no desire to have it argued in the ICC. They know the truth. Should it evr reach an open court Israel will simply state what I have just told you couched in alot of legalese. Arabs cannot deny that they are not ingenous. Sure, they argue this in their propaganda but wehen it comes down to adult like contemplation they know full well what will happen.

People say Israle violates International Law by holding Sheba'a Farms...The UN, until last week, stated that it is a land in dispute between 3 parties, Syria, Lebanon, and Israel. Last week it accepted a Syrian/Lebanese compromise (which took decades to happen) but still recognised that until Syria and Lebanon accept Israel's legal existence, as well as accept full negotiations and mediation on the issue. Of course neither nation will do any of that so it is what it is.

If you have any other particular issues I would be happy to discuss them.

No nation has the right to bend any Interantional LAw. There ARE laws that are interpretable, but the designation of what constitutes a terrorist organisation is not one of themm. Neither is the ramifications of such a designation. The EU must have a reason? Oh absolutely. I certainly agree and can even tell you the (highly) propable reason: The EU fears terrorism and sees tacit acceptance much safer than tangling with an Iranian and Syrian proxy.

Hezbollah has committed acts of International terrorism a few times already, a couple of them quite large and the EU is in no way trying to get on their bad side. It looked for an out. It created an out by using the non-sensical rationale that because Hezbollah had entered the political process in Lebanon it then deserved to be deal with face to face.

Problem there however is that HAMAS also entered the political process within its own arena. The EU failed to recognise HAMAS though and of course that is because HAMAS is not an International threat, only a regional-specific one and the region is far from the EU. Shame on the EU.

Yes, UNIFIL would be a great reason to do away with Hezbollah's military wing if not the entire organisation but despite decades of promises neither Lebanon nor ther UN will take any action. To compound this criminal negligence, UNIFIL has actually aided in the murder of at least 2 IDF personel.

The current Secretary General of the UN , to his credit, toured the UNIFIL field within the last 6 months and not only condemend Hezbollah but oversaw preperation of a report lambasting the group, as well as Syria for its direct assitance inr earming them. It noted how Hezbollah was rearming at a phenomenol rate and how UNIFIL was failing miserably in trying to counter this.

UNIFIL, to date, despite being engaed by terrorists in the UNIFIL field (zone), have failed to address these threats to regionals ecurity and Israel in particular.

 

[rachamim18]

Spion: "Thousands of 'Palestinian' children have been killed by Israel.": Israel has purposely killed thousands of Arab children? Is this your belief? You did not say purposely but given the context, as well as knowing your beliefs, this is a safe assumption. However, I will wait until you clarify this before responding.

"At Deir Yassin, Arab children had their heads bashed in by Jewish militiamen, with sticks.": Uh, no they did not. Yassin is a terribly tragedy as well as a War Crime. However all killed were killed by gunfire and that is a fact, If you are this carelss with basic information, how can anyone listen to your claims?

I should also clarify, because you did not (of course), that Israel was not even in existence when this took place. Furthermore, for proper context,, it occurred after direct provocation and under extreme duress. Additonally, the total number of victims has been grossly over represented by propgandists and this shills. That said, it was an atrocity and I would, if I had my way, personally execute those responsible.


"Israel kills arab children with Cluster Bombs...": Israel used Cluster Munitions in the 2006 Lebanon War. It did so against bonafide military targets. It also did so after Hezbollah employed them first. It is important to note that while Israel was legally justified in employing them, Hezbollah did not target any military targets. It simply pointed its armaments south and let loose. I should know, I had the pleasure of picking many of them up after that war.

"Israel killed Arab children with tank shells...":Again, ON PURPOSE? IF not, what would be your point? Close Quarter Urban Combat, as I say quite often here, is very difficult. CQUC in the world's literally most densely populated region is all the more difficult. That Israel has not killed a hundred thousand inncoent Arabs is a miracle given the circumstances. It is a testament to our training and askill that we manage to keep Collateral Damage to a minimum.

Finally, in terms of Arab children, Arabs consider 12 year old boys to be men. School usually ends at age 11. Terrorist groups accept 12 year old boys as full members. It is not England. You and others keep looking at things through your own cultural prisms. If a 12 year old fires a Kalash it kills just as if a 40 year old fired it. Imminent Threat is Imminent Threat.

12 year olds not in terrorist groups also aspire to be heroes and the peer pressure to do so is immense. Teens have been "Suicide Bombers," as well as just rock slingers, incedinary throwers, and gunmen. It might be nice in England to hold the hands of 12 year old killers but in my backyard it is neither smart nor prudent.

In terms of "thousands" having been killed, that is absolute nonsense regardless. Whenever a gunshot kills any "Palestinian" the world says Israel did it. Here is the thing though, no "Palestinian" ever gets an autopsy. Ergo, how do they know they even died from gunshots? All one hears is some unidentified "Palestinian" MD or neighbour saying "Israel did it."

We use very m, very specific ammo. It is all 5 and 7 NATO but the grain count is very , very specific. You can look at a round and tell if there is even a chance it is Israeli but this is never allowed so we do not know what is what. there is never any independant proof, such as CCTV (which innundates both Gaza and the so called "WB"), film taken either by "Palestinian" OR a foreign "observer." The other day I believe YMU was talking about a film shot by a "PAlestinian" that purports to show the IDF killing an ISM lackey but in realklity it only shows the foreigner dying. Of course it does not show anyone from the IDF firing at him. It pans from the IDF to the man falling. Anything could have happened.

the IDF are well trained, the best trained on Earth in terms of regular Infantry AND Special Forces (although snipers and marksmen are less trained than in the US,etc. They hone skills in operational theaters after a decent amount of training albeit much less than Western forces). "Palestinian" gunmen, most in their 20as or younger have no real training at all. At least the PLO used to train their gunmen for a tiny bit of time. Groups now in existence do no such thing.

Then factor in the Arab love of guns and you have a very high probability of having killed their own people either purposely (as happened openly in the Intifadeh I) or inadvertantly due to sloppy and inept operation.

Before people start sobbing over my claim that Arabs love guns, consider the use of guns to celebrate every momentous occaison. I have talked in the forum before about how the current PM of Lebanon, the day after his election, enacted his very first law - a law banning the use of guns in celebrations. Why did he do this? The evening before, celebrating his victory, gunmen managed to kill 2 little girls in 2 separate instances of firing wildly.

Weaponry is considered a part of Arab machismo. In Yemen they emasculated Jews by prohibiting the males from carrying scimtars, and many other things too numerous to mention so kill the whining before it starts.

 

[Idaho]

Rachimin. Do you think you could condense it a bit. You just cover every Israel thread with acres of extranious detail.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

They're like slaves who learn bad habits from their masters.

Wow.

Can you say: 'patronizing'?

Gullible childlike arabs can't do anything on their own: it's all monkey see, monkey do with them.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

You seem a bit too keen to highlight what *some* Palestinians/Arabs might want to do to Jews rather than the real iniquity of occupation and dispossession that is at the root of the conflict.

Why aren't the descendants of germans and others displaced from their homes following WW2, bashing in the heads of four year old kids?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

It shouldn't be any surprise that among a people that has been treated horrendously for decades there are some less than temperate voices

Hence: IRA bombs in London.

 

[Idaho]

People do terrible things when they have had terrible things done to them. Israel has killed thousands upon thousands of Palestinian/Arab children. It started in its formative days by smashing their heads in with sticks during massacres such as Deir Yasin. It not does it now by cluster bomb and tank shell. I'm not justifying anything. You stated that the prisoner release wouldn't play well. I think it does if you consider the wider historical context. When Israel has made its perpetrators of massacres into prime ministers and honours those who took part in them with medal ribbons and the like it shouldn't be surprising that Hizbullah honours its people who do similar.

Yes, it's sad and it's sick, but we really have to understand the root causes of all this to stand any chance of doing anything about it.

My problem isn't with you understanding them. My problem is that you breeze over them. You don't condemn them because you see it as zero sum. If it is bad for Israel it must be good for Palestinians and visa versa.

You can't murder and slaughter your way to justice.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

People do terrible things when they have had terrible things done to them. Israel has killed thousands upon thousands of Palestinian/Arab children. It started in its formative days by smashing their heads in with sticks during massacres such as Deir Yasin. .

Er, didn't the massacres go both ways back then?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Rachimin. Do you think you could condense it a bit. You just cover every Israel thread with acres of extranious detail.

Maybe he feels he has to make up for the dozens of people constantly spewing anti israeli propaganda.

 

[rachamim18]

Tangent:"Israel annexed 70% of Golan..": Israel never annexed it.

Israel gained it after a war iniated by Syria, and after Syria had used Golan to bomb innocent Israeli non-combatants for 2 decades. Israel has offered to return 100% of it, IF Syria I) Recognises Israel's Right to Exist, II) Syria agrees to a formal PEace Agreement. To date, Syria has refused both unequivocally.

"Circassian (Muslim, Jewish, Christian).": You need to some more research. Circassian is a term that is very specific. It applies only to those former Ottoman Slaves who specialised in military service. ALL are Slav in origin and ALL are Muslim. The community it extremely tiny and very few ever lived in Golan. Most live in Israel Proper and are full citizens of Israel. They insist on full military service and serve with distinction. They and Israeli Druse comrpise a specialised Infantry Battalion, Charuv.

While of course it is possible some might have reverted to Christianity, none are known to have done so, and there are absolutely no Jewish Circassians.
Like Druse, they have an extremely strong ethnic identity and again like Druse, it is tied to their religious beliefs. They are Sunna Muslim.


"Circassians fled Russian annexation of their lands in the 19th Century."::Uh no. They were taken in battle and otherwise bought, by Ottoman Turks. It IS true that they originated in lands that were mostly under Russian and later Soviet domination but they were enslaved long before you believe.


"Today 350,000 Golani descendants live in Damscus.": Absolute nonsense. Do you have any idea how big Golan is? A hundred odd thousand fled? It is not an urban area. You are incredibly short of the mark. In fact, prior to 1967 it was incredibly sparsely populated. Currently, population levels are the highest they have ever been and that of course is due to Israeli citizens.

"An unkown number of Circassians fled to Turkey.": Yeah, in 1917.

"Abandoned villages were destroyed in Golan, by Israel."ABSOLUTELY. First one correct. Why? They presented a very real security threat. Any abandoned building in a war zone does. Syria exists in a perpetual state of Declared War with Israel. Golan is in contention. Ergo, it is only sensible to do so.

"Israel refused to allow refugess from Golan to return.": The 11,000 that fled? Sure. Why? INTEL. Residents of Golasn are allowed, with permit, to cross into Syria although it is rare that they even apply. Should 11,000 and descendants return, and then choose to cross back Israeli Security arrangments could easily be comrpomised. IF a person flees and a zone remains contentious, International Law, specifically related to Rules of War, recognises that they must wait until either a specific agreement is reached on that particular issue OR a settlement is achieved at all.

"Throughout the 60s and 70s Israel continued to try and seize more and more land in southern Lebanon and Syria.": UTTER NOSENSE. IF Israel wanted to do so, it could have annexed a huge area of Lebanon, did it even move to do so? Golan, unknown to you apparently, has never been annexed.

 

[rachamim18]

Tangent: "Israel shot Circassians in a village...": UTTER GARBAGE. Shame.

 

[rachamim18]

Idaho: "Can Rachamim condense a bit.": Aside from what Canuck says, which of course is true, everything i post is direct relation to a point makde by another poster.

IF this seems like alot of info to you, it is only because there many people here to whom I am responding. You will also notice that while most posters here relegate their posting to ad hom attacks, and snipped propaganda articles, I respond factually. People might not agree with these facts but they have yet to respond with any factual rebuttal, only attacks on me as a person.

 

[JHE]

Maybe he feels he has to make up for the dozens of people constantly spewing anti israeli propaganda.

Yup, I expect he does.

I don't read much of the stuff in this forum, but I see enough to know that he works patiently to rebut the myriad of rabid Anti-Zionists. They respond with their usual bile. Tis as it ever was...

BTW, have you ever noticed any of U75's best friends of Palestine show the slightest interest in the fate of the people of the Western Sahara?

 

[Idaho]

Yup, I expect he does.

I don't read much of the stuff in this forum, but I see enough to know that he works patiently to rebut the myriad of rabid Anti-Zionists. They respond with their usual bile. Tis as it ever was...

BTW, have you ever noticed any of U75's best friends of Palestine show the slightest interest in the fate of the people of the Western Sahara?

Have you also noticed that threads about Western Sahara never even mention the struggle of the Indonesian Acheh people for independence? Duh!

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

BTW, have you ever noticed any of U75's best friends of Palestine show the slightest interest in the fate of the people of the Western Sahara?

But.....those people aren't being oppressed by jews.

 

[JHE]

Have you also noticed that threads about Western Sahara never even mention the struggle of the Indonesian Acheh people for independence? Duh!

What threads about the Western Sahara?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Have you also noticed that threads about Western Sahara never even mention the struggle of the Indonesian Acheh people for independence? Duh!

What he means is, that our resident anti israelis, don't seem to be able to work up the fire, the venom, the passion, when it's other oppressed groups being discussed, and especially those who are being oppressed by muslims.

Go figure.

 

[JHE]

But.....those people aren't being oppressed by jews.

You could have a point there. The Moroccan monarchy is not known for its Jewishness.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

I had to laugh: back when we were discussing the janjaweed, the response here was decidedly tepid.

 

[isitme]

on a similar note, there are so many people who seem to have a fairly in depth knowledge about the region, and a lot of conviction

but not many threads about the plights of the Kurds

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

on a similar note, there are so many people who seem to have a fairly in depth knowledge about the region, and a lot of conviction

but not many threads about the plights of the Kurds

...or the Hazara.

 

[isitme]

Or Syria, Lebanon and Egypt's treatment of Palestinians

 

[nino_savatte]

But.....those people aren't being oppressed by jews.

Care to expand, Canuck?

 

[nino_savatte]

Gullible childlike arabs can't do anything on their own: it's all monkey see, monkey do with them.

Could you explain this please?

 

[tangentlama]

Much of Circassian culture was disrupted after their conquest by Russia in 1864. This lead to a Circassian Diaspora, mostly to various parts of the Ottoman Empire. Today, significant communities of Circassians live in Turkey, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, Israel, Libya, and the United States. The small community in Kosovo expatriated to Adygea in 1998.

The Circassians originated in the northwestern quarter of the Caucasus, bounded on the north by the Kuban river. They practiced a mixed economy. Those in the higher vallies and montane forests practiced small scale agriculture and hunting, and often preserved old Christian or pagan customs. Those in the foothills and plains practiced horse-breeding, farming and trade, and usualy espoused Sunni Islam, though in their towns Christian and Jewish Circassians could be found.

http://www.circassianworld.com/Circassians.html

 

[tangentlama]

Maybe he feels he has to make up for the dozens of people constantly spewing anti israeli propaganda.

There are no anti-Israeli propagandists here. Most links are to Israeli mainstream news and Israeli and Palestinian civil-rights NGOs.
People are talking because they care about the future of Israelis and Palestinians, not because they hate Israel.

Those you've labelled as 'spewers of anti-Israel propaganda' support the non-violent civil struggles of both peoples to self-determination. This is not anti-Israeli, but pro-Israeli and pro-Palestinian.

When historical discussion takes place about Israel-Palestine, this is not a condoning of violent-struggles, but an attempt to understand and place, in context, the struggles of today with the struggles of the past.

It is very important to understand how the situation arrived at the one which we see today - to do that, we have to look at the historical events that brought us here..

Which brings us to these accusations from:
a strangely anti-Muslim 'anarcho-nationalist/ex-swp'er'/ex-leftist neo-con (JHE);
an ex-Kahanist 'reformed centrist' who finds it ok to link to Arutz Sheva - the ultra-right-wing settler media that allows no female voices and is anti-government, anti-gay, anti-Arab - (Rachamim);
a right-wing Canadian who links to US-generated neo-con propaganda - Taheri/Iranians make Jews wear yellow-stars.

JHE and Canuck especially resort to classic methods to shut down discussion by with their attempts to label pro-Israeli/pro-Palestinian/pro-Peace/pro-two-states as 'anti-semites/Israel haters.

The truth is, we are interested in civil rights, and give our full support to the non-violent civil rights movements in both Israel and Palestine.

 

[ViolentPanda]

What he means is, that our resident anti israelis, don't seem to be able to work up the fire, the venom, the passion, when it's other oppressed groups being discussed, and especially those who are being oppressed by muslims.

Go figure.

Yeah.

Go figure that there were never any threads about East Timor, huh?