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islamophobia .. what does it mean? is it wrong? etc

lol

you have lots of friends! not just immigrant friends as stated in the other thread!

have you received PMs of support?
shakes head at such snideyness and a bull headedness :)

.. in the time you have on duty FM why not read the OP and try to understand what it says and read Blagsta comments on drugs work and think about how we can rescue the fucking awful situation we are in
 
A few people with a murderous intent against multi-state sanctioned invasion. Hmm, I can't see a difference really.
 
Islamophobia, for want of a better term, refers to one (or both) of two things:

1) fear/criticism of, suspicion, hatred or hostility towards Islam

2) fear/criticism of, suspicion, hatred or hostility towards Muslims

These are two different things, but they get conflated. For example, attacking Islam as a religion is too often a means of promoting hatred towards people, but it is definitely not always. It is unfair as well as unhelpful to denounce all religious criticism as 'Islamophobic' but this is sometimes done by religious 'representatives' and by the media in particular. This manoeuvre is employed deliberately by both 'sides' (see below). However, that religious beliefs don't have rights and needn't be accorded respect gets confused with people not deserving respect for the same reason that religious beliefs don't.

This is why I only use the term to describe the latter phenomenon (which is very real). As does Samir Amin:

Islamophobia, systematically promoted by important sections of the political elite and the media, is part of a strategy for managing community diversity for capital’s benefit, because this supposed respect for diversity is, in fact, only the means to deepen divisions within the popular classes.

* A political theory based on “collective cultural identities” as central to understanding dynamic social reality.—Ed.

The question of the so-called problem neighborhoods (banlieues) is specific and confusing it with the question of imperialism (i.e., the imperialist management of the relations between the dominant imperialist centers and the dominated peripheries), as is sometimes done, will contribute nothing to making progress on each of these completely distinct terrains. This confusion is part of the reactionary toolbox and reinforces Islamphobia, which, in turn, makes it possible to legitimize both the offensive against the popular classes in the imperialist centers and the offensive against the peoples of the peripheries concerned. This confusion and Islamophobia, in turn, provide a valuable service to reactionary political Islam, giving credibility to its anti-Western discourse. I say, then, that the two reactionary ideological campaigns promoted, respectively, by the racist right in the West and by political Islam mutually support each other, just as they support communitarian practices.
Political Islam in the Service of Imperialism, Monthly Review 2007

'Divide and rule' is the old imperial maxim. Mutual fear and hostility has driven a wedge between people at a decisive juncture in which the struggle against Washington in one region has implications for the poor and working-class globally. Reducing the issues involved to culture and religion or some symbol deriving from both is a ploy to obscure reality, assisting the offensive undertaken by elites everywhere (who have worse things to fear than terrorism, or fascism for that matter).

I agree with OP that this needs to be solved partly by explaining and educating. The current 'public discourse' is an ominous joke. But try not to be disappointed when that approach doesn't make much headway, especially where/when this phenomenon manages to gain a logic of its own. Some people need hobbies, others need to concentrate on other/more important things and stfu basically etc...
 
well sadly your opinion which we all know is very liberal and progressive does not serve as a template for others irrational prejudices .. one day you might get off of urban leave brixton and go out into the wide world and see your world is not doing so well

The thing to hate and fear is fundamentalism and extremism, no matter what it comes clothed in.
 
Strictly speaking, -phobia doesn't necessarily mean fear of, it can also mean unusually strong aversion or irrational hatred. Just saying is all.
 
so the london bombs are no basis?

Nope you serious prick.
A few Muslims did that silly trick not all of us.
Most Muslims don't support violence and murder.

Islamaphobia is like all hatreds. It depends on all in any group being the same and no group ever is.

It's just as wrong as hating all of any group because of the actions of a few or because you just don't happen to like them for your own silly reasons.
 
I don't like saudi backed whaabist flavor of islam.
its hardline it hates women and gays.
generally has no redemming features and has enough cash to spread its nasty flavour of religion all over the place:(
 
so those who lost their family and friends in the london bombings should not have no fear of islam?

Those who lost their family and friends to the IRA should also have a fear of Catholicism as well?

Anyone who sees the bombs dropping from US planes on muslim countries should have a fear of Christianity shouldn't they?

Anyone who sees Israelis invading Gaza should fear Jews and be afraid of Jews shouldn't they?
 
Throughout history, ‘western’ Christian-based culture has suppressed and vilified non-Christian faiths, for example, the medieval suppression of the remnants of pre-Christic culture in Scandinavia in the form of removal of the Sapmi Shamanic drum, or the accusations levelled at both Jewish and Islamic ('Saracen') migrants living in Europe.

The microhistorian Carlo Ginzburg outlines one of many examples of historical Islamophobia being expressed hand-in-hand with Judeophobic sentiment. Ginzburg reveals that during the 1300’s C.E. in France, rumours of well-poisoning were ascribed to Jews and/or Muslims, and resulted in persecutions and pogroms against Jews and Muslims throughout the region:

“Contemporary letters and documents tell of Jews’ association with the Saracens and of plans for setting up a government composed of Jews, lepers, and Muslims, to take over Europe in the aftermath of the calamity.”
(Carlo Ginzburg, February 2003)
 
c.1895

We, the organised Jewish workers of England, taking into consideration the Anti-Alien
Resolution, and the uncomplimentary remarks of certain delegates about the Jewish
workers specially, issue this leaflet, wherewith we hope to convince our English fellow
workers of the untruthfulness, unreasonableness, and want of logic contained in the cry
against the foreign worker in general, and against the Jewish worker in particular.

It is, and always has been the policy of the ruling classes to attribute the sufferings
and miseries of the masses (which are natural consequences of class rule and class
exploitation) to all sorts of causes except the real ones. The cry against the foreigner is
not merely peculiar to England; it is international. Everywhere he is the scapegoat for
other’s sins. Every class finds in him an enemy. So long as the Anti-Alien sentiment in this
country was confined to politicians, wire-pullers, and to individual working men, we, the
organised aliens, took no heed; but when this ill-founded sentiment has been officially
expressed by the organised working men of England, then we believe that it is time to lift
our voices and argue the matter out.


http://www.noii.org.uk/files/A_Voice_From_The_Aliens_(reprint_of_1895_pamphlet).pdf
 
your not suggesting that the rise of anti-semetism in europe in the late 1930s was justified and we should understand it

I'm comparing this to what durutti was saying about peoples fears of muslims. Obviously its not my view.
 
Islamophobia can be simply defined as a fear that manifests as prejudice: prejudice against the adherents of Islam - Muslims; prejudice against Islamic culture; and prejudice against Islam as a religion.
 
Islam is practiced with variations according country, culture, and sect.

It is not possible to genuinely talk of a single Islamic culture, therefore, any viewpoint which portrays Islamic religion, culture, or it’s Muslim adherents as ‘one-dimensional’ would qualify as Islamophobia.

Examples of Islamophobia are presented in a landmark report from the Islamic Human Rights Commission entitled “The British media and Muslim representation: the ideology of demonisation” , (IHRC, url: www.ihrc.org.uk/show.php?id=2493 , last accessed 14th July 2007), which argues that popular culture has had a crucial role in shaping the view that the general public holds regarding Islam and Muslims.
 
Apart from you and the other bigots on here, yes.

You come across as increasingly bigoted these days FM. People like durruti and treelover both question things.
You seem incapable of understanding why they question things and it looks to me as your really starting to hate it.
You hate what you dont understand.

Let me try again for you.

People who support free market liberal views on migration. Support the fact that poorer countries lose the young and skilled workers they most need.
They support a policy that makes the world a much more unequal place.
 
The Guy from MPAC an Asian obviously, has just been on Sky he is arguing no more Mosques should be built untill there are numerous programmes put in place to teach civic duty, a respect for the host country, to immans, elders, the youth,

watch the liberals/far left squirm....
 
Islam is practiced with variations according country, culture, and sect.

It is not possible to genuinely talk of a single Islamic culture, therefore, any viewpoint which portrays Islamic religion, culture, or it’s Muslim adherents as ‘one-dimensional’ would qualify as Islamophobia.

Examples of Islamophobia are presented in a landmark report from the Islamic Human Rights Commission entitled “The British media and Muslim representation: the ideology of demonisation” , (IHRC, url: www.ihrc.org.uk/show.php?id=2493 , last accessed 14th July 2007), which argues that popular culture has had a crucial role in shaping the view that the general public holds regarding Islam and Muslims.

How do you juggle this with the view generally purveyed by Mulims that they are part of 'one' 'Ummah', and that any deviation from that is probably a blasphemer/zionist plant/agent of the west etc...
 
Nope you serious prick.
A few Muslims did that silly trick not all of us.
Most Muslims don't support violence and murder.

Islamaphobia is like all hatreds. It depends on all in any group being the same and no group ever is.

It's just as wrong as hating all of any group because of the actions of a few or because you just don't happen to like them for your own silly reasons.
did you read the op .. say what is wrong on it if you have a rational opinion
 
Those who lost their family and friends to the IRA should also have a fear of Catholicism as well?

Anyone who sees the bombs dropping from US planes on muslim countries should have a fear of Christianity shouldn't they?

Anyone who sees Israelis invading Gaza should fear Jews and be afraid of Jews shouldn't they?

did you read the OP?? i have described -phobia as irrational fear with a kernal of often fact often myth .. so yes many people in the above scenarios DO have those phobias ..

tbh i am frankly astonished at how illiterate ( unable to read ) people are on here .. i am being attacked for somehow supporting islamophobia when i am trying to show WHY people are -phobic so we can er change their minds .. yet peopel immediately assume i am sup[porting them .. utter bizarre ..

isn't that what people want to do, chnage peoples minds? or are you happy being losers and shouting impotently at the majority
 
i believe any word with -phobia at the end as in arachnophobia means 'a fear of' .. but in common and particularly leftist language these -phobias are used as 'hatred'

so homophobia means imho fear of same sex sexuality (an irrationality based on deep millenium old cultural issues) but is commonly used as hatred of gays

and islamophobia means fear of islam ( an again centruies old irrationality but with recent excuses) is used as hatred of muslims

it seems bizarre to me that we usually try to understand peoples fears and help them through them but in these cases ( and can we stick to islamophobia) there is no attempt to understand, just simple condemnation. how does that help?

and there is a very real material basis for islamophobia .. 10 years of war in msulim countries with hundreds british soldiers killed .. 200 british dead in 9/11 .. 50 dead in 7/7 .. and a saudi funded significant increase in islamist presence over the last few years co-inciding with a period of massive insecurity for the majority of people as neo liberalism goes into crisis

so we have a choice .. condemn and attack people for being afraid .. or help them ..

and if we don't the BNP will .. oh look they already are

am i losing my mind lol :D where in here ^^^^ do i justify or support islamophobia??? i make it clear it is irrational .. any one with any brains can see the point of this OP is how to change peoples minds who are islamophobic .. and there are significant numbers .. yet almost everyone on this thread has interpreted the OP as SUPPORTING islamophobia? this is seriously lazy shite from too many people

look do we want to change the world or remain impotent moaners? IF we want to chnage the world we will have to take the majority with us . that means winning the vast majority of islamophobes to our ideas ..

so the OP is about what islamophobia is SO WE CAN TACKLE IT .. if people wish to dioscuss that please do .. if you do not understand this please try
 
The Guy from MPAC an Asian obviously, has just been on Sky he is arguing no more Mosques should be built untill there are numerous programmes put in place to teach civic duty, a respect for the host country, to immans, elders, the youth,

watch the liberals/far left squirm....
he is obviously a islamophobe :rolleyes:
 
I see Islamophobia as just another extension of the pervasive determinist thinking that seeks to blame inanimate objects (guns, computer games, drugs) instead of the people who do bad things with them. It's exacerbated in the case of Islam by the general public being too polite to bring up religion unless they're pissed and muslims not being allowed to drink - which is an impediment to setting the record straight about some of the misconceptions that circulate.
 
No one is getting what you're saying then. Time to think about communicating differently.

Not sure there's any point frankly. Like the 'Trots' he condemns only durrutti is the holder of the truth. If you read sopmeone in his half rantings then it's your fault.... He doesn't need to change anything it's everyone elses fault....
 
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