Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
Lock&Light said:
Not aimed at you, L&L, but for the hard of thinking: my comment about the Chinese prez was a response to the query by Fela Fan as to whether or not there was a bigger criminal around than Bush.
Islamo-Fascism
- Thread starter warren
- Start date
Not aimed at you, L&L, but for the hard of thinking: my comment about the Chinese prez was a response to the query by Fela Fan as to whether or not there was a bigger criminal around than Bush.
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
I don't think that JC2's comments were irrelevant at all, as fela did pose that specific question, and certainly there was nothing to deserve a multi-page derailment. It's not the first nino complaint I've had today either. Consider this a big yellow card.
The issue is not helped by L&L popping in to argue about nino being a thread disrupter etc. This activity is just as disruptive as anything it is supposedly meant to counteract. If there is a problem with a post (a) report it and (b) for fuck's sake DO NOT THEN DERAIL THE THREAD EVEN WORSE YOURSELF. I have said this so many times and yet it never seems to get through.
The issue is not helped by L&L popping in to argue about nino being a thread disrupter etc. This activity is just as disruptive as anything it is supposedly meant to counteract. If there is a problem with a post (a) report it and (b) for fuck's sake DO NOT THEN DERAIL THE THREAD EVEN WORSE YOURSELF. I have said this so many times and yet it never seems to get through.
nino_savatte said:
I would have reported this post, Fridge, if my previous three complaints hadn't been totally ignored by you and the other mods.
nino_savatte said:
Vimto was banned?? Fuck, this forum just gets more and more sanitised. When did this happen?
Seriously, he was banned?
Nino, i've had my run-ins with you mate, but you're still worth reading. There's not many left like you.
Urban reminds me more and more like viz. Starts as underground, but gradually its success begins to eat itself.
Johnny Canuck2 said:
And harvesting organs of already dead people (assuming you're right that is) is your idea of making a bigger criminal than butchering thousands upon thousands of people, and smashing up the infrastructure of various countries?
Are you being in any way serious at all mate?
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
fela fan said:
Aye, he was banned while serial thread disrupters like L&L remain. There is no justice in this world.
Vimto got banned about a month ago and naturally, all those who wanted him banned are now beside themselves with joy.
We may have had our run ins but I'd like to think that those are behind us now.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
fela fan said:
Not if he comes out with crap like "No child left behind".
nino_savatte said:Aye, he was banned while serial thread disrupters like L&L remain. There is no justice in this world.
Vimto got banned about a month ago and naturally, all those who wanted him banned are now beside themselves with joy.
We may have had our run ins but I'd like to think that those are behind us now.
Ah that must have been the time i was barely in cyber communication.
I recall a time when me and vimto exchanged some nasties. Then we understood.
As for those jumping with joy over his banning, sounds just like the cabal that scream 'conspiracy loony' on the 911 threads. Group thinking.
I feel today mate that i should never ever complain about yourgoodself again, instead i should congratulate you for even being here any more.
[sorry, but i find these boards increasingly homogonous and benign. In amongst all the carping and bullying that is, never mind the banning of interesting voices.]
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
FridgeMagnet said:
I've reported posts and nothing, absolutely nothing is done. Instead I find that I get the blame....or it's "both of you stop it now". There's only one person who gains anything from this and that is L&L.
The real culprits are always left to get on with derailing threads and stalking people around.
camouflage
gaslit at scale.
I'd say it's almost as stupid as terms like "Clash of Civilizations", "End of History" and "The Onward March of Freedom".
However, as far as I'm concerned, Fascism and Religion will always be compatible. The details of a religious text that might contradict this usually proves to be as irrelevent to practice as passages like "Thou shalt not kill" or "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you".
Religion is inconsistent bigoted nonesense because people are inconsistent, bigoted and nonesensical. Any religion is our own creation, what makes it so ridiculous is pretending it isn't our own creation. But if any of us can be fascist, so can any of our religions. People can interpret any book that people have written in whichever way they choose to. The Koran, the Bible, they can be fascist texts if you want them to be, quite easily.
However, as far as I'm concerned, Fascism and Religion will always be compatible. The details of a religious text that might contradict this usually proves to be as irrelevent to practice as passages like "Thou shalt not kill" or "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you".
Religion is inconsistent bigoted nonesense because people are inconsistent, bigoted and nonesensical. Any religion is our own creation, what makes it so ridiculous is pretending it isn't our own creation. But if any of us can be fascist, so can any of our religions. People can interpret any book that people have written in whichever way they choose to. The Koran, the Bible, they can be fascist texts if you want them to be, quite easily.
Dissident Junk
picking oakum
tangentlama said:
Bloody interesting point, Tangent. I really can't say how I feel about that idea.
For a start, they were fascists. I think that would be fairly agreed upon by most people. But Catholo-fascist? Humm . . .
Part of me thinks, well, they did define themselves through their Catholicism, they were seen to be supported by the Vatican, by the Serbs, because they were Catholic, anything that wasn't Catholic was 'other', the view amongst certain quarters was that they were part of some religious crusade to wipe out the remnants of Eastern Christdom and claim it for the Vatican. So if I was an elderly Serb, who'd seen bodies swing from lamposts, I might think Catholo-fascism was a fairly good term.
But then another part of me thinks that no perception is ever truly correct or that simple; there are always other ways to define a movement or individual depending on where you are stood. I could easily say they were Croat-fascists, or Balkan-fascists, or Med-fascists, or Adriatic-fascists, or anti-Stalinists or, even, if I was Croat, national heros.
And there's the rub.
I suppose it depends on the majority connective identity. They were fascists; they were Croats; they were Catholic. So does that make them Croat-Catho-fascists? Or CCFs? Or just fascists?
Sorry . . . . I'm warbling.
According to Al Jazeera, Islamo-fascism is an oxymoron.
http://www.aljazeerah.info/Opinion ...lamofascism is an Oxymoron By Enver Masud.htm
http://www.aljazeerah.info/Opinion ...lamofascism is an Oxymoron By Enver Masud.htm
ZAMB said:
Interesting. But it's a good word to use to demonise people then when you've whipped up the hate you can go and bomb the innocent with impunity and the support of Fox News. I've watched a lot of children pulled out of rubble recently. Nasrallah and Bush are still both alive though.
david dissadent
New Member
I have run across the term Christofacist before and may even have used it. Should I now find a more politicaly correct term than Christoterrorism for those who kill doctors at abortion clinics?
Part of the idea of using a word like Islamofacist is to diffentiate between them and mainstream Islam which is usualy given a platitude about being 'peacelovong' at some point in there speaches by Bush and Blair. The question then is what catchall phrase is used for the very clear international group of people who are commiting terrorism in the name of Islam? Or is this now out of bounds to discuss?
Another point to make, Bush and Blair specificaly are anything but anti muslim. Bush has had a number of friends who are muslim and Blair has pushed for muslim faith schools and laws to protect the Islamic religion in the UK. It is worth taking the effort to be clear about there motivations and actions. There is no war on Islam. If muslim nations stood on nothing more valuable than sand*, they would have basicaly no problem with them. But it doesnt, so muslim lands stand on bits of land coveted by some zionists in Israel and a hell of a lot of oil.
In there own minds they have gone to war on behalf of the muslim peoples of Iraq to free them. This is the rationalisation for there desire to control oil.
* I was going to write 'bannana plantation' but then remembered United Fruit and Guatamala. Which proves the point, there is no more a war on Islam than Catholicism by the US. The only war is a war on anyone in the way of profit, irrespective of prophets.
Part of the idea of using a word like Islamofacist is to diffentiate between them and mainstream Islam which is usualy given a platitude about being 'peacelovong' at some point in there speaches by Bush and Blair. The question then is what catchall phrase is used for the very clear international group of people who are commiting terrorism in the name of Islam? Or is this now out of bounds to discuss?
Another point to make, Bush and Blair specificaly are anything but anti muslim. Bush has had a number of friends who are muslim and Blair has pushed for muslim faith schools and laws to protect the Islamic religion in the UK. It is worth taking the effort to be clear about there motivations and actions. There is no war on Islam. If muslim nations stood on nothing more valuable than sand*, they would have basicaly no problem with them. But it doesnt, so muslim lands stand on bits of land coveted by some zionists in Israel and a hell of a lot of oil.
In there own minds they have gone to war on behalf of the muslim peoples of Iraq to free them. This is the rationalisation for there desire to control oil.
* I was going to write 'bannana plantation' but then remembered United Fruit and Guatamala. Which proves the point, there is no more a war on Islam than Catholicism by the US. The only war is a war on anyone in the way of profit, irrespective of prophets.
david dissadent said:
I find "religious nutter" does very well indeed for Bush, Blair, Olmert, the "Al-quaeda" brand and the clinic bombers.
None of them display all the necessary and specific distinguishing features of fascism - though if you count Bush's doctrine that he can override the constitution as the Führerprinzip he's damn close. Pedantic historians - the best kind - would argue that the policy of replacing trades unions with company "unions" is central and necessary to being considered a true fascist, though.
To stretch the term "fascist" in this way is an insult to the memory of all those - whether gay, gypsy, jew or communist - who suffered at the hands of real fascists.
david dissadent said:
Try using the word murderers. This applies to Bush and people who bomb others generally.
david dissadent said:
The point is David neither you or Bush appear to know what the word fascist actually means. It's just something to trot out.
david dissadent said:
Don't try and do comedy Dave
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
fela fan said:
Yes.
I believe Bush is an incompetent. He might even be well meaning for all I know, but he's an incompetent, nothing more nor less.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
fela fan said:
They're not dead, they're killed, in order to harvest their organs.
You tell me: what is it about Falun Gong membership that warrants the death penalty?
david dissadent
New Member
I take it that your criticism of those who call Bush a facisct is equally scathing. You have just not the time to post it.Mallard said:
Are you?Mallard said:Don't try and do comedy Dave
david dissadent
New Member
If we are being pendantic then on the whole some Jews were part of the founding of the Italian facist movement.laptop said:
One can expand and contract deffinitions to fit the momentary need and as such only the Italian facist party was really facist. Persicution on ethinic grounds was only really introduced under Nazi pressure.
Facist (for me)is a word to describe excessive authoritarian tendancies of a political group in discussions with relatively non political people. I guess perhaps Im used to talking to non political geeks more than most on this forum.
david dissadent said:
You guess wrong.
If you bandy "fascist" about as carelessly as that last post suggests, then people will dismiss you as a political geek (of the Dave Spart variety) and you're devaluing political language.
What the hell's wrong with "religious nutter" or "control-freal religious nutter" for that matter?
from the link posted by ZAMB-(post 78)
More importantly perhaps, the use of the term Islamic terrorism has a more pernicious effect. It paints an entire faith as suspect, lets governments off the hook too easily by not forcing them to more precisely define the "enemy," and it endorses the propaganda of the hate-mongers.
It also distorts the true nature of the problem, and thus proposed solutions do not receive the scrutiny they deserve, thereby, giving governments the freedom to conduct war or take punitive action for purposes that have little to do with the real threat.
More importantly perhaps, the use of the term Islamic terrorism has a more pernicious effect. It paints an entire faith as suspect, lets governments off the hook too easily by not forcing them to more precisely define the "enemy," and it endorses the propaganda of the hate-mongers.
It also distorts the true nature of the problem, and thus proposed solutions do not receive the scrutiny they deserve, thereby, giving governments the freedom to conduct war or take punitive action for purposes that have little to do with the real threat.
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