is this the finest speech in modern times?

[muser]

This speech is a reminder that our voice is being heard. He is right to ask for a restructuring of the united nations. Thank you fela for posting it.

 

[fela fan]

Oh come on, comparing Bush to the devil with an asinine joke about being able to smell suphur, which is repeated as the denoument? It's hardly "I have a dream" is it?

Yeah, but that's one tiny bit from a long speech. Why have you concentrated on that tiny bit? And are you saying that chavez is actually wrong? I'd say bush is as near a devil as we've got in this world today.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

CONG. RANGEL CONDEMNS CHAVEZ'S ATTACK ON BUSH
WASHINGTON - I want to express my extreme displeasure with statements by the President of Venezuela attacking U.S. President George Bush in such a personal and disparaging way during his remarks at the United Nations General Assembly.

It should be clear to all heads of government that criticism of Bush Administration policies, either domestic or foreign, does not entitle them to attack the President personally.

George Bush is the President of the United States and represents the entire country. Any demeaning public attack against him is viewed by Republicans and Democrats, and all Americans, as an attack on all of us.

I feel that I must speak out now since the Venezuelan government has been instrumental in providing oil at discounted prices to people in low income communities who have suffered increases in rent as heating oil prices have risen sharply. By offering this benefit to people in need, Venezuela has won many friends in poor communities of New York and other states. I am surprised that American oil companies have not stepped up to provide that kind of assistance to the poor.

Venezuela's generosity to the poor, however, should not be interpreted as license to attack President Bush. Those who take issue with Bush Administration policies have no right to attack him personally. It was not helpful when President Bush referred to certain nations as an "axis of evil." Neither is it helpful for a head of state to use the sacred halls of the United Nations to insult President Bush.


http://www.house.gov/apps/list/press/ny15_rangel/CBRStatementChavezUNspeech09212006.html

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Leading Bush critic at home calls Chavez a "thug"

Sep 21, 12:43 PM (ET)


WASHINGTON (Reuters) - One of President George W. Bush's fiercest political opponents at home took his side on Thursday, calling Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez a "thug" for his remark that Bush is like the devil.

"Hugo Chavez fancies himself a modern day Simon Bolivar but all he is an everyday thug," House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi said at a news conference, referring to Chavez' comments in a U.N. General Assembly speech on Wednesday.

"Hugo Chavez abused the privilege that he had, speaking at the United Nations," said Pelosi, a frequent Bush critic. "He demeaned himself and he demeaned Venezuela."

Simon Bolivar led the fight for independence against Spanish rule in several South American countries in the early 19th century and is cited by Chavez as a political model.

Chavez, a vociferous critic of Bush and the United States, has allied himself with U.S. opponents Cuba and Iran and has led a resurgence of left-wing populism in Latin America.

"The devil himself is right in the house. And the devil came here yesterday. Right here," Chavez said as he stood at the U.N. podium where Bush spoke the day before.

"It smells of sulfur still today, this table that I am now standing in front of," Chavez said.

His remarks drew applause from many of the delegates.

Bush administration officials have not responded directly to Chavez's remarks.

"I am not going to dignify a comment by the Venezuelan president to the president of the United States. I think it is not becoming for a head of state," Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said on Wednesday.

http://reuters.myway.com/article/20...844_RTRIDST_0_NEWS-VENEZUELA-USA-SPAT-DC.html

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

""Bush is an alcoholic, a sick man with a lot of hang-ups," declared the left-wing Venezuelan leader. "He walks like John Wayne."

Bush "doesn't know anything about politics, he got there because of Daddy," said Chavez, referring to Bush's father, George Bush, US president from 1989 to 1993."

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/09/21/060921201049.4stienzo.html

After awhile, you expect something a little more concrete from politicians, than just name calling.

 

[fishfingerer]

After awhile, you expect something a little more concrete from politicians, than just name calling.

It's better than lying to the world and bombing and bombing and bombing the fuck out of people until they give up, then bombing them again cos coming second is for fags.

 

[fela fan]

it's a good speech, shame you have to go to Common Dreams to read it rather than the snippet on the BBC website which mentions only his comments about the book and Bush being the devil.

Still, what can you expect from the BBC, the shower of shite that they are.

Did any of the papers run the full speech?

 

[fela fan]

This speech is a reminder that our voice is being heard. He is right to ask for a restructuring of the united nations. Thank you fela for posting it.

You're most welcome muser. There are huge amounts of us out in this world who he is speaking for, including many in US and UK.

His two main points: the UN doesn't function according to the wishes of the vast majority of countries due to the permanent membership and their right to veto; and that the US are a huge danger to the stability and peace of our world.

The pity is that just about no-one in the media or political office in the US or UK are recognising this.

 

[fela fan]

"Hugo Chavez abused the privilege that he had, speaking at the United Nations," said Pelosi, a frequent Bush critic. "He demeaned himself and he demeaned Venezuela."

No he fucking didn't.

He spoke for huge numbers of millions of people in countries all round the world.

As for abusing privileges, bush does that regularly by promoting torture and blasting coutries to tiny bits with thousands of kgs of bombs. They are death merchants and total danger to a stable world.

Chavez called bush and his cabal for this. And this idiot called pelosi said he abused his privileges.

This pelosi man just talks to his limited audience. Chavez talks for several millions more.

 

[fela fan]

""Bush is an alcoholic, a sick man with a lot of hang-ups," declared the left-wing Venezuelan leader. "He walks like John Wayne."

Bush "doesn't know anything about politics, he got there because of Daddy," said Chavez, referring to Bush's father, George Bush, US president from 1989 to 1993."

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/09/21/060921201049.4stienzo.html

After awhile, you expect something a little more concrete from politicians, than just name calling.

Well then johnny, just go back to my OP and read his speech that i linked to. Plenty of concrete stuff there to get yer chops round mate.

 

[TomUS]

Leading Bush critic at home calls Chavez a "thug"
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - One of President George W. Bush's fiercest political opponents at home took his side on Thursday, calling Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez a "thug" for his remark that Bush is like the devil.

"Hugo Chavez fancies himself a modern day Simon Bolivar but all he is an everyday thug," House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi said at a news conference, referring to Chavez' comments in a U.N. General Assembly speech on Wednesday.

US politicians are competing to see how much they can bash Chavez. Many of these are liberal Democrats that I usually agree with for the most part. The election is coming up and they are terrified of being called unpatriotic. It's just politicians covering their asses. I don't take these comments seriously & I think many actually agree with the thrust of what he said. But it is clever in a way because the right wing press was salivating at the chance to bash the liberals for not bashing Chavez & now they don't know what to say.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Well then johnny, just go back to my OP and read his speech that i linked to. Plenty of concrete stuff there to get yer chops round mate.

I did read it. Too bad he saw fit to weaken his message and his image by speaking as if he were in an elementary schoolyard.

 

[fela fan]

I did read it. Too bad he saw fit to weaken his message and his image by speaking as if he were in an elementary schoolyard.

Look mate, he IS a politician you know. It's very difficult indeed for even the good ones to not resort to type...

But in any case, i'm not sure he weakened his message. That is debatable.

 

[fela fan]

Why, was it printed out in full in newspapers in Germany, France, Spain, Italy, Japan, Australia, Portugal and ALL the other countries that make their profits off the backs of the 3rd world? Or is this just another of your il-conceived rants about USUK press coverage - the UK half of which you have been shown up by on several occassions...

Anything to do with the third world was not in my mind when asking the question. Which incidentally i see you haven't answered!

Chavez was speaking about the US and its role in the world. I included the UK press as well as the US press because the UK are often bombing these other countries as well. It is the american, and to a lesser extent, the british public that can help reign in these disastrous actions that the US carry out in support of its hegemony.

But with a disgraceful lack of news of his speech (and other similar speeches) in the US and UK media, most people cannot even know about it in order to debate it.

Why, i'd not think it unreasonable that Question Time, Newsnight, and all the other political and current affairs programmes would be heavily focussing on and debating the contents of chavez' speech. And that it should be printed out in full in all the UK papers.

And what about that excellent speech a few weeks ago from the iranian president who was openly appealing to bush and the americans?

Nah, the trouble with debate on international topics in britain and the US is that the population are never given the chance to access non-western thinking.

Cultural and linguistic hegemony, backed up by the bombs and torture. Just as chavez was talking about.

Go the man, go. Keep up the fine fine work in exposing to the american people just what their leaders are doing to this planet. Time's running out.

 

[Dr Jon]

See also: Bush’s Cruel and Degrading Presidency

 

[fela fan]

See also: Bush’s Cruel and Degrading Presidency

Reading that mate just seems to suggest that chavez wasn't forceful enough in his description of what bush is and how he is messing with the whole world, including his own country. He's been a total disaster ever since he was born, and a dangerous lunatic for over five years now.

 

[Barking_Mad]

Shame when a man who's government is intent on global hegemony gets called some names by someone telling it like it is, isn't it? I find it odd that some on here would rather look at a few cheap insults than the rest of the speech which was very positive.

Besides, Bush is quite obviously the opposite of "Good" or indeed if far from "God" - The Devil?

Seems quite apt to me.

 

[slaar]

Shame when a man who's government is intent on global hegemony gets called some names by someone telling it like it is, isn't it? I find it odd that some on here would rather look at a few cheap insults than the rest of the speech which was very positive.

Besides, Bush is quite obviously the opposite of "Good" or indeed if far from "God" - The Devil?

Seems quite apt to me.

Thinking that cheap insults is not the way to debate doesn't mean I don't appreciate some of the things he said. But it's not a fine speech, and there's no reason why it should be given any more space in UK newspapers than any other speech given by a head of state at the UN this week.

This assumption that Chavez and Ahmadinajad are virtuous, moral people whilst Bush is 'evil' isn't helping any kind of resolution to the world's problems.

 

[nino_savatte]

""Bush is an alcoholic, a sick man with a lot of hang-ups," declared the left-wing Venezuelan leader. "He walks like John Wayne."

Bush "doesn't know anything about politics, he got there because of Daddy," said Chavez, referring to Bush's father, George Bush, US president from 1989 to 1993."

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/09/21/060921201049.4stienzo.html

After awhile, you expect something a little more concrete from politicians, than just name calling.

1. It's true that GWB got where he is because of Daddy.
2. Bush was/is an alcoholic.
3. The John Wayne comparison is apposite.
4. US politicians resort to name-calling on a frequent basis

Your argument has more holes than the average colander.

 

[ska invita]

US politicians are competing to see how much they can bash Chavez. Many of these are liberal Democrats that I usually agree with for the most part. The election is coming up and they are terrified of being called unpatriotic. It's just politicians covering their asses. I don't take these comments seriously & I think many actually agree with the thrust of what he said. But it is clever in a way because the right wing press was salivating at the chance to bash the liberals for not bashing Chavez & now they don't know what to say.

-maybe they believe it, maybe they dont- one thing that is so funny about this is that Chavez' record is squeaky clean - there is nothing the US can pin on him - a post above told how CNN used a shot of him shaking the Iranian PM's (Mahmoud Ahmadinejad) hand as evidence of his dangerous nature: a shot that will no doubt be used in some intelligence dossier presented to the UN when the invasion begins.

They are having to scrabble in the mud for dirt to fling - Chavez's biggest success is that his agenda doesnt fall into any of the traps that socialist of the 60's and 70's fell into, that could be spun to justify US terror campaigns and coups. The fact is Chavez is pretty moderate - a real socialist thridway'er.

What makes him really annyoing to the US is that he is outspoken, and of course that he is succesfully building bridges and coalitions with other countries around the world, and succesfully promoting an alternative to neo-liberalsim.

Yeah he pulls out some populist one-liners, but his speaches contain more complex theoretical language than any Bush speach ever did.

 

[ska invita]

I believe that referring to Bush as the devil has populist overtones, just as does Bush's reference to Iran etc as the axis of evil.

Let us not forget that over 60% of the population of the US actually believes in a devil! (*snigger)

(Six in ten adults believe in the devil (61%) and in hell (59%).2005 stats/)
http://www.harrisinteractive.com/harris_poll/index.asp?PID=618

Bearing this in mind the use of the term Devil is probably quite astute...

 

[slaar]

That would also perhaps imply that only 2 percent of Americans think Bush could be the Devil, unless he lives in hell and the US at the same time.

 

[ska invita]

-thats trying to use way too much logic - we're talking about delusional and irrational concepts here.

Believeing in the devil doesnt mean that they believe the devil lives in hell - perhaps they think the devil lives in their "closets", or maybe they think the devil can take the form of a man, or believe any old shit.

The devil is crafty and will try and get you in many ways! All that stuff about sulphur would probably have more effect on all these "believers" than any CHomsky book would - Chavez cleverly appeals in his speach to both those capable of reading a non-fiction book and the vast majority of screw loose Christians.

 

[fela fan]

I find it odd that some on here would rather look at a few cheap insults than the rest of the speech which was very positive.

I'm afraid it's not odd at all mate. It's western blinkered thinking. As you also noted, that was the only bit the bbc bothered with! And many posters on urban are no better or no worse than bbc pundits. It's the western disease mate!!

 

[fela fan]

1. It's true that GWB got where he is because of Daddy.
2. Bush was/is an alcoholic.
3. The John Wayne comparison is apposite.
4. US politicians resort to name-calling on a frequent basis

Your argument has more holes than the average colander.

Or the same as the bottom of a toilet.

I recall that OBL was 'wanted dead or alive'... even john wayne came out with stuff like that...

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

I'm afraid it's not odd at all mate. It's western blinkered thinking. As you also noted, that was the only bit the bbc bothered with! And many posters on urban are no better or no worse than bbc pundits. It's the western disease mate!!

But, Chavez is western, so surely a 'western' mind is interpreting his speech correctly.

Also, anybody knows that the things that stick with you from a speech will be the big opening, or a big closing, and here, the big opening was the insult. He planned it that way.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Interesting snippet about Chavez and Ahmadinejad at the UN.

Indeed, while US officials have attempted to brand Mr Chavez and Mr Ahmadinejad as clowns, much of what they are saying - particularly the Iranian leader's characterisation of the Security Council as a relic of the Second World War composed of nations who feel entitled to world dictatorship - reverberate closely with the feelings of a large number of countries not quite so bold in speaking their minds.

These beneath-the-surface sympathies may spell more trouble for the US as the UN membership prepares to vote next month on filling the five non-permanent Security Council seats that will become free at the end of the year.

Washington is pushing hard for Guatemala to represent the Latin American block, but there are clear signs that victory may go to Venezuela.

Its presence on the council will make it much harder for the US to gain the votes it will need on a series of important issues.

source

 

[nino_savatte]

Or the same as the bottom of a toilet.

I recall that OBL was 'wanted dead or alive'... even john wayne came out with stuff like that...

Aye, it's just like Gil Scott-Heron's song-poem B Movie..

And when America found itself having a hard time facing the future, they looked for people like John Wayne. But since John Wayne was no longer available, they settled for Ronald Reagan – and it has placed us in a situation that we can only look at – like a “B” movie
http://www.lyricsbook.net/lyrics/46379.html

You can quite easily replace "Reagan" with "Bush". In fact, Bush was seen as the inheritor of Reagan's mantle; this was how the repubs promoted him.

 

[nino_savatte]

But, Chavez is western, so surely a 'western' mind is interpreting his speech correctly.

Also, anybody knows that the things that stick with you from a speech will be the big opening, or a big closing, and here, the big opening was the insult. He planned it that way.

Here's one for you, it comes from your beloved Leader:

Originally Posted by G W Bush
I wake up every morning with war on my mind

I know which one sounds more dangerous and it isn't Chavez.

 

[slaar]

Interesting snippet about Chavez and Ahmadinejad at the UN. source

Does the US have a veto over membership of the security council?