Is this a very bad writing habit?

[story]

Oh sorry - yeah I've only started doing it in the last couple of days. Or at least I've noticed myself doing it in the last couple of days.

So you are learngin how to write like an Academic! Go nosos!

Something else I'm prone too

Again I suggest that it's the editing skills that need to be sharpened up

 

[Brainaddict]

Yeah, it's not great but you can get away with it in academic writing, where convoluted sentences are the norm. Really don't do it elsewhere though. I would suggest that a lot of what is normal and acceptable in academic writing is, objectively speaking, *bad writing* and that we need an academic writing revolution in which the chief perps are put against a wall and shot in the face - but that's for another thread...

 

[trashpony]

... or parentheses - they work well (although of course it's easy to get caught in them (the temptation is to keep going forever)). And of course there is always the colon: an underused punctuation mark, in my opinion. The semi-colon is also very useful; but it is often used erroneously; like I just did.

I like colons: they work really well if you move from one idea to another: but the problem with them is that you then can't go back to the original idea. I don't like semi-colons. It's a purely aesthetic thing though - I just don't like the way they look. As you see, I'm rather fond of the dash

 

[story]

I have no clue how to use a semi colon properly

Oh do please learn, it does make writing easier

It makes the piece more elegant, and thus easier to read.

 

[nosos]

This is probably the case. How might one go about doing this??

(both editing skilsl and learnign to sue a semi colon)

 

[story]

Yeah, it's not great but you can get away with it in academic writing, where convoluted sentences are the norm. Really don't do it elsewhere though. I would suggest that a lot of what is normal and acceptable in academic writing is, objectively speaking, *bad writing* and that we need an academic writing revolution in which the chief perps are put against a wall and shot in the face - but that's for another thread...

Totally agree with this

 

[story]

I like colons: they work really well if you move from one idea to another: but the problem with them is that you then can't go back to the original idea. I don't like semi-colons. It's a purely aesthetic thing though - I just don't like the way they look. As you see, I'm rather fond of the dash

I'd have put a semi-colon in before the "but" (bolded).

These things are idiosyncratic, and add to a person's writing "voice".

When I edit someone else's work, I strive not to render it into my own "voice" by the se of punctuation.

 

[nosos]

Surely the "but" serves the same pupose as the (semi)colon there?

 

[two sheds]

I tend to see a sentence as conveying one idea and a paragraph as a group of related ideas (sort of). So ...

"Squire investigated the stories HIV positive women tell about themselves, and how they conceptualise their romantic life. He drew on popular culture as a resource and how this in turn represents a way of their living with their illness. That gave greater insight into the situation of HIV positive women than is possible through inquiries framed by more conventional ‘coping’ narratives."

I find that clearer because it's not just one idea you're putting across. All in one sentence and i find i've got to go back to the beginning of the sentence to remember what it started off as. And its almost same number of words. Interested on what people think, though.

 

[sojourner]

Yeah, it's not great but you can get away with it in academic writing, where convoluted sentences are the norm. Really don't do it elsewhere though. I would suggest that a lot of what is normal and acceptable in academic writing is, objectively speaking, *bad writing* and that we need an academic writing revolution in which the chief perps are put against a wall and shot in the face - but that's for another thread...

I like that style of writing though. I got off on all that when I was doing it meself

It's not bad writing. I realise I appear to be outgunned on this one, but fuck it

 

[story]

This is probably the case. How might one go about doing this??

(both editing skilsl and learnign to sue a semi colon)

...er....Not sure

I went to an old fashioned school, in an old fashioned age, so I was taught such things when young.

I enjoyed the Lynne Truss book Eats, Shoots and Leaves: that might be a starting point for the punctuation.

Editing - well, that's a matter of practice, I think. Being brutal is the key. I've tried to teach editing several times, but without much success.

 

[story]

Surely the "but" serves the same pupose as the (semi)colon there?

You are correct

 

[nosos]

I tend to see a sentence as conveying one idea and a paragraph as a group of related ideas (sort of). So ...

"Squire investigated the stories HIV positive women tell about themselves, and how they conceptualise their romantic life. He drew on popular culture as a resource and how this in turn represents a way of their living with their illness. That gave greater insight into the situation of HIV positive women than is possible through inquiries framed by more conventional ‘coping’ narratives."

I find that clearer because it's not just one idea you're putting across. All in one sentence and i find i've got to go back to the beginning of the sentence to remember what it started off as. And its almost same number of words. Interested on what people think, though.

I like it

 

[story]

I like that style of writing though. I got off on all that when I was doing it meself

It's not bad writing. I realise I appear to be outgunned on this one, but fuck it

I like it too, sojourner

 

[nosos]

This is such a wonderfully navel-gazing form of procrastination, even by my standards...

 

[story]

I tend to see a sentence as conveying one idea and a paragraph as a group of related ideas (sort of). So ...

"Squire investigated the stories HIV positive women tell about themselves, and how they conceptualise their romantic life. He drew on popular culture as a resource and how this in turn represents a way of their living with their illness. That gave greater insight into the situation of HIV positive women than is possible through inquiries framed by more conventional ‘coping’ narratives."

I find that clearer because it's not just one idea you're putting across. All in one sentence and i find i've got to go back to the beginning of the sentence to remember what it started off as. And its almost same number of words. Interested on what people think, though.

And there is an example of good editing

 

[nosos]

You are correct

So is it not unnecessarily reduplicating it?

(ooooooooh 8,800 pleases my postcount OCD so much)

 

[ymu]

I'm terrible for long sentences (as this post is about to prove ). I hate chopping them up, and I often don't if it's the most elegant way of expressing something (as in your example in the OP) - but too many long sentences affect readability a lot. Academic or not, no reader is paying 100% attention to every grammatical/punctuational signifier. It's really really hard to assess readability of something you've only just written, so it's worth spending a bit of time on, I think. Going back to old stuff with fresh eyes can help (but obviously not for a new writing 'tic').

If I do use a long sentence I try to make sure it parses easily so there's no skipping back and forth to check the sentence construction. I sometimes use lot of semi-colons to chuck the explanatory clauses at the end of a sentence or, like Trashpony says, -- is more visible than a comma if there's a lot of text. You always have to edit for the journal style anyway, and you won't know where it's going to be published whilst you're writing it.

 

[ymu]

So is it not unnecessarily reduplicating it?

(ooooooooh 8,800 pleases my postcount OCD so much)

I'd never use a conjunction after a semi-colon; I mostly use them to signify that there's a bit of directly relevant context coming at the end of an already complete sentence.

 

[Yossarian]

I've recently developed a really strange habit of putting long elucidatory sub clauses in the middle of sentances using commas. Like so:

By investigating the stories HIV positive women tell about themselves, how they conceptualise their romantic life through drawing on popular culture as a resource and how this in turn represents a way of their living with their illness, Squire is able to gain a greater insight into the situation of HIV positive women than is possible through inquiries framed by more conventional ‘coping’ narratives.

Is this a bad habit and should I stop doing it?

Yep - it's too long and not very readable, there's a couple of dozen words of exposition before you even get to what the sentence is about, better to start the paragraph with a short sentence about Squire gaining some insight and follow it with a longer one about the hows, IMO.

 

[two sheds]

I'd never use a conjunction after a semi-colon; I mostly use them to signify that there's a bit of directly relevant context coming at the end of an already complete sentence.

Is right, but i'd tend to the idea that if it's an already complete sentence it should have a full stop.

 

[spanglechick]

I'd have put a semi-colon in before the "but" (bolded).

No

Surely the "but" serves the same pupose as the (semi)colon there?

Yes

I'd never use a conjunction after a semi-colon; I mostly use them to signify that there's a bit of directly relevant context coming at the end of an already complete sentence.

Quite. A semi colon should seperate two complete clauses - in other words, what's on both sides of the semi colon should make sense as a simple sentence in its own right.

Is right, but i'd tend to the idea that if it's an already complete sentence it should have a full stop.

Mmm - which is why semi colons are dying out. The problem is that if you do that, you get a lot of simple sentences. Which can be a bit trying.

Next time you use a connective between two clauses, try substituting it for a semi colon; it can feel quite special.

 

[weltweit]

I think the OP is fine if perhaps a touch pompous.

I have started to have trouble with using brackets where a comma could be used, and can you have a comma followed by and? (there are other issues that I pick up, for example using a slash where and or or could be used for example and / or). So when to use brackets? and probably I think I never should use slashes at all.

 

[ymu]

Is right, but i'd tend to the idea that if it's an already complete sentence it should have a full stop.

I meant complete as in grammatically self-sufficient. Most of my sentences don't end with semi-colon clauses; occasionally it makes more sense if they do.


E2A: actually, I hate that use of the semi-colon. I'm happier with that as a single sentence (+ conjunction) or two sentences.

I tend to use them when the second sentence is giving context or an explanation for the idea expressed in the first sentence; there's more of a feel of continuity and it may be easier to avoid ambiguity and/or the need for repetition.

 

[trashpony]

I'd have put a semi-colon in before the "but" (bolded).

These things are idiosyncratic, and add to a person's writing "voice".

When I edit someone else's work, I strive not to render it into my own "voice" by the se of punctuation.

Me too - I was trying to illustrate (poorly obviously!) that you can't really use a colon twice in the same sentence

ETA - actually I would have used a comma.

 

[ymu]

Me too - I was trying to illustrate (poorly obviously!) that you can't really use a colon twice in the same sentence

It was a great example sentence - it demonstrated correct and incorrect use of the semi-colon as well. You just needed to point out which use was correct and which incorrect (and that two ain't gonna fly).

E2A: Nah - bollocks. The sentence explained it. That last clause were perfick.

 

[Scarlette]

I've recently developed a really strange habit of putting long elucidatory sub clauses in the middle of sentances using commas. Like so:

By investigating the stories HIV positive women tell about themselves, how they conceptualise their romantic life through drawing on popular culture as a resource and how this in turn represents a way of their living with their illness, Squire is able to gain a greater insight into the situation of HIV positive women than is possible through inquiries framed by more conventional ‘coping’ narratives.

Is this a bad habit and should I stop doing it?

It's very Henry James. And to be honest, I always get confused by Henry James and have to read each sentence six times.

 

[Yossarian]

I like that style of writing though. I got off on all that when I was doing it meself

It's not bad writing. I realise I appear to be outgunned on this one, but fuck it

It's a good enough, and technically correct way of writing and can be useful for stuff like academic essays where you need to pack as many facts into every sentence as possible, but I think it's pretty bad if you want anything you write to be read by somebody who's not getting paid to do so.

 

[two sheds]

Mmm - which is why semi colons are dying out. The problem is that if you do that, you get a lot of simple sentences. Which can be a bit trying.

Next time you use a connective between two clauses, try substituting it for a semi colon; it can feel quite special.

I used to overuse semicolons and sort of reacted to that by forgetting about them altogether ("semicolons are sooooooo 80s").

Agreed you throw in a longer sentence to get balance and avoid the text becoming monotonous, but there's no need for a series of simple sentences to feel monotonous if you vary the sentence structure and things. I do also find it easier with short sentences to spot where something I've written doesn't make sense. .

Having said that, i've no objection to reading a nicely turned semicolon.

And can't say that any of this applies to creative writing, incidentally.

 

[two sheds]

I tend to use them when the second sentence is giving context or an explanation for the idea expressed in the first sentence; there's more of a feel of continuity and it may be easier to avoid ambiguity and/or the need for repetition.

Fair do's.