Is there anything to quibble with over this outline of Green philosophy?

[rich!]

it is also true, IIRC that various polls of Urbanites (e.g. on the last UK Parliamentary election) show the Greens to be in most cases the favoured party of a majority or certainly a large number of Urbanites too. Now not all Urbanites look like Rowan Williams and knit their own yoghurt do they?

Regardless of our boundless admiration for the coherence of Bernie's thought, I think you're forgetting that the main Green Party supporters round here are the Drugs Forum, who are looking forward to a government with an Agriculture Policy that involves promotion of welsh farming of shrooms, and the use of tube-train excess heat for the farming of skunk in London.

I don't think this is official Green Party policy, but y'know: we can tell where this whole "sustainable" thing is going...

 

[Fullyplumped]

The news report focussed almost entirely on the most stereotypical and unsympathetic Green on the bus - no explantion was given of the leaflets, or the Esso Boycott, or of the aims of the campaign. Anyone not in the know would have been presented with a rather disturbing looking woman running across petrol station forecourts yelling.

I hope the Greens aren't having a go at disturbing looking women!

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Regardless of our boundless admiration for the coherence of Bernie's thought, I think you're forgetting that the main Green Party supporters round here are the Drugs Forum, who are looking forward to a government with an Agriculture Policy that involves promotion of welsh farming of shrooms, and the use of tube-train excess heat for the farming of skunk in London.

I don't think this is official Green Party policy, but y'know: we can tell where this whole "sustainable" thing is going...

It's funny you should mention drugs, but whenever I have these "You're all a bunch of miserable moralistic kill-joys, don't you dare preach at me, who the fuck do you think you are anyway?" kinds of conversations about ecology issues, I'm strongly reminded of a conversation I had a couple of decades ago with a friend who was in the process of becoming a smackhead.

I had no magic answer to his objections back then, and I don't have one now.

 

[rich!]

It's funny you should mention drugs, but whenever I have these "You're all a bunch of miserable moralistic kill-joys, don't you dare preach at me, who the fuck do you think you are anyway?" kinds of conversations about ecology issues, I'm strongly reminded of a conversation I had a couple of decades ago with a friend who was in the process of becoming a smackhead.

I had no magic answer to his objections back then, and I don't have one now.

Krishnamurthi!

I'm trying to give you a subtle hint.

If the Green Party played up their "hardcore tolerance" thing, they might secure a whole bunch of waverers.

For example:

personal preference about death
drugs vetted for purity by the state
children taught fairly about sexual activity and provided with appr. equipment
power relations analysed
unions supported
de dum
de dum

these are the reasons to vote green (other than the environmental ones) but they are never publicised!

 

[888]

OK, so it sounds like the problem arises for many people when the green critique is phrased or heard as a personal moral criticism?

Directing your anger at external enemies like the government or your employers is both more effective and more accurate.

 

[Rob Ray]

Again though, that's a fairly limited basis for dismissing a political analysis based on sustainability (if that's what you're doing).

It isn't. I was referring to the current image of the Greens only, which, as I have pointed out, is such that Jeremy Clarkson is personally a great deal more popular despite his anti-social inclinations.

I'd dismiss the political analysis of the greens on the same basis as I'd dismiss the party political system in general - it has zero chance of success as its proposed reforms do not challenge corporate dominance and will be tempered, even eradicated, by fear of capital flight from the economy. The best you can hope to achieve is a limited impact on public service methodology - worthy to be sure but not something which is going to set the world on fire.

When the markets can no longer bear the strain, green issues will be addressed, and probably in a mightily harsh way, by whichever government is in power at the time. It is likely centralised socialist economics will make a comeback at that point regardless of the incumbent party's personal value system, because it will be the ony sensible way to allocate resources efficiently (see conservative government policy after the war for a historical example). What point then in building yet another party?

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Can we be clear about greens and Greens (ie members of a Green Party)? I'd class myself among the former, but not among the latter (because I'm not a member of any Green Party)

I think an analysis of sustainability issues leads to the conclusion that capitalism is in itself not sustainable. Green Parties want to get elected to national office, so they don't go around saying things like that, even if a whole bunch of their members (eg most of the ones we have here) privately think so.

 

[Japey]

children taught fairly about sexual activity and provided with appr. equipment

Can I point out that is not green party policy.