Is the World Cup a "circus" which helps sustain world peace?

[goldenecitrone]

I think the thing that would really unite all the people of this planet would be the threat of invasion from another planet. Even then I'm sure you'd get appeasers or collaborators. 'tis the way of this and other worlds.

 

[nopassaran]

I think the thing that would really unite all the people of this planet would be the threat of invasion from another planet. Even then I'm sure you'd get appeasers or collaborators. 'tis the way of this and other worlds.

Never had you down for a nihilist G?

 

[goldenecitrone]

Never had you down for a nihilist G?

Too many John Gray books.

 

[kyser_soze]

nopassarn - thanks for the considered and civil reply there

Now just in case I've come over as some ultra-nationalist I do agree with you to an extent about nationalism (and certainly when it comes to dealing with issues like the environment we need MORE internationalism from people in terms of understanding that it's a global problem), but when it comes down to it I also think that excorcising the animal need in humans to identify with a tribe/nation/larger organism than themselves is eiher impossible or would so fundamentally alter us as a species we'd be a new form of homo sapiens.

Gotta agree with your last few paras as well - but I again add that note of caution about expected outcomes from good ideas - while you might expect that people who were more inclined to try and link action and consequence and think things through would be beneficial to them and the world at large it could just as easily turn out to be a bigger fucking mess than it is today!

 

[kyser_soze]

Bastard - just did another long-sh reply and got signed out before posting it...grrr...

 

[nopassaran]

....we'd be a new form of homo sapiens.

I'll drink to that......

But seriously that's the essence of my argument, I think we do need to change radically as a species.

Gotta agree with your last few paras as well - but I again add that note of caution about expected outcomes from good ideas - while you might expect that people who were more inclined to try and link action and consequence and think things through would be beneficial to them and the world at large it could just as easily turn out to be a bigger fucking mess than it is today!

I think that's maybe a risk we have to take, although if such a change were possible, it would not occur overnight so I doubt it would set in chain a totally uncontrollable chain reaction that would cause things to get even more out of hand than they are already. I think it at the end of the day there could be everything to win and very little to lose. But that doesn't mean to say it's not something that should be considered.

I'll await the rest of your communique......

 

[Jo/Joe]

I get it from the fact that the WC is a competitive event based around national teams - the purpose being for one national to beat another and in so doing give 'their people' a sense of pride, which would not be possible if there wasn't a different country to beat

Course I'm making up my own argument cos I think for myself thankyou very much and don't trot out some crap that I read somewhere. So is your argument not your own?

And if it weren't for tribal instincts then politicians wouldn't be able to start wars cos they'd have nothing to mobilise around. Quite simply people wouldn't want to participate in wars or engage in ethnic conflict.

Nobody goes around saying 'our country is better than yours' just because of a game of football. When you construct an argument you should also try to use supporting evidence.

People can be manipulated into supporting wars. Or haven't you noticed? Politicians can and do do many things that shouldn't be possible.

 

[nopassaran]

Nobody goes around saying 'our country is better than yours' just because of a game of football. When you construct an argument you should also try to use supporting evidence.
.

The underlying sentiment may not be expressed in such a crude manner by the vast majority of people, but I think you'll find that competitive sports are based around winning, and forgive me but I think you'll find that amounts to be being better. My argument is that this is far more damaging when we're talking about competing countries - it has the potential to take on a political significance such as the case with the Nazis during the olympics. Ethnic rivalries such as those beween Celtic and Rangers is another case in hand, and I also understand this occurred among teams in the former yugoslavia.

People can be manipulated into supporting wars. Or haven't you noticed? Politicians can and do do many things that shouldn't be possible.

Yes, politicians manipulate nationalistic sentiments among the populations they govern or at least have influence over, but I think you'll find it doesn't take much to inspire xenophobia. I mean take for example violent racism this has occurred throughout history, it's not always just down to politicians telling people how to think or what to do - people can think and make decisions for themselves.

Oh btw when YOU put an argument together maybe you should consider trying to exercise a little more civility, and possibly not resort to simplistic maxims like; "Politicians start wars, not tribalism", to explain away what are extremely complicated and serious issues - sorry but it's your attitude that pisses me off not your argument.

 

[TAE]

 

[Jo/Joe]

The underlying sentiment may not be expressed in such a crude manner by the vast majority of people, but I think you'll find that competitive sports are based around winning, and forgive me but I think you'll find that amounts to be being better. My argument is that this is far more damaging when we're talking about competing countries - it has the potential to take on a political significance such as the case with the Nazis during the olympics. Ethnic rivalries such as those beween Celtic and Rangers is another case in hand, and I also understand this occurred among teams in the former yugoslavia.




Yes, politicians manipulate nationalistic sentiments among the populations they govern or at least have influence over, but I think you'll find it doesn't take much to inspire xenophobia. I mean take for example violent racism this has occurred throughout history, it's not always just down to politicians telling people how to think or what to do - people can think and make decisions for themselves.

Oh btw when YOU put an argument together maybe you should consider trying to exercise a little more civility, and possibly not resort to simplistic maxims like; "Politicians start wars, not tribalism", to explain away what are extremely complicated and serious issues - sorry but it's your attitude that pisses me off not your argument.

Your arrogance pisses me off more than your argument, cliched and narrow minded as it is. The way you think you can judge something so complex and twist it to suit your needs. Given the amount of football that is played, the amount of supporters there are, the amount of conflict as a result is minimal. It is often no more than an excuse for two sets of young men to fight. Some young men do that, they enjoy it. Perhaps you should think of some other underlying causes of violence.

Competitive sports are about being the best you can and, yes, trying to win. This is vastly different to being xenophobic or putting down the character of other peoples. Like absolutely anything else, including all progressive forms of politics, if it is carried out the wrong way it can be destructive. And a marginal amount of individuals will use it for their their own destructive purposes. Destructive behaviour exists in all human realms.

You have a comprehensive knowledge of racism through the ages do you?