Is the urge for certainty rooted in human nature?

[max_freakout]

Of that I am certain.

how do you know that you don't just feel certain of it?

 

[max_freakout]

i am absolutely certain that i couldn't possibly be certain

 

[i-am-your-idea]

there is a very important difference between 'being certain' and 'feeling certain'

people often use 'i am certain' - as way of saying 'i feel certain.'

you can say 'i was certain that my shoes were blue, but now im certain they are green.'

which you would not be able to say so comfortably if 'i am certain' really meant 'i am certain'

 

[cesare]

whatever you focus you attention on grows.

Come again?

 

[max_freakout]

people often use 'i am certain' - as way of saying 'i feel certain.'

you can say 'i was certain that my shoes were blue, but now im certain they are green.'

which you would not be able to say so comfortably if 'i am certain' really meant 'i am certain'

you can feel certain about anything

you can be certain about nothing

 

[weltweit]

do they feel certain of this though? of is it just instinct? could they doubt it?

What exactly do you mean by instinct?

Lion's behaviour is both innate and learnt, baby lions do not know how to hunt, they learn this from their mothers.

Elephants apparently have very long memories, perhaps they memorise the distance between watering holes and can use this to make decisions about where to head next.

Do animals feel "doubt", well as we do I think it is possible that they also, we after all are animals too.

 

[cesare]

i am absolutely certain that i couldn't possibly be certain

Now, I was completely in agreement with you until this point.

You only feel certain that you couldn't possibly be certain.

 

[i-am-your-idea]

Come again?

whatever you focus your attention on grows.

typo

 

[max_freakout]

What exactly do you mean by instinct?.

i mean a lion can kill a deer without having to be certain about how to do it, the ability just comes naturally

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Is the urge for certainty rooted in human nature? Is there some aspect(s) of what it is to be a person living in the world that leaves us longing for certainty: maybe to provide a secure frame of reference to orientate our understanding of ourselves and our lives.

It's this, but even simpler. Our survival, or the survival of any creature, isn't guaranteed. Certainty means uniformity, predictability, etc, which we can use to maximize the chance of survival. Certainty means a meal, or at least a standardized place to secure one. It means going to sleep, and not being afraid of being eaten in the night.

 

[i-am-your-idea]

You only feel certain that you couldn't possibly be certain.

are you insane?

 

[cesare]

typo

Typos don't really matter to the sense, I meant 'grows into what?'

 

[cesare]

are you insane?

I don't know, but I doubt it.

 

[max_freakout]

Now, I was completely in agreement with you until this point.

You only feel certain that you couldn't possibly be certain.

i don't feel certain of this though, in fact i feel totally uncertain about it

but i AM certain of it because it is true

knowledge is impossible

 

[i-am-your-idea]

i mean a lion can kill a deer without having to be certain about how to do it, the ability just comes naturally

the zen quote for today was something like-

if you want to know what a strawberry tastes like ask a child or a bird.

 

[weltweit]

you can feel certain about anything

you can be certain about nothing

Don't agree with that.

I am certain I am using a device called a keyboard right now!

I am certain my keyboard is connected to a PC, which is connected via a wireless connection to a broadband router which is connected via the internet to this site urban75 and into this sub forum and into this thread, upon which these words which I am typing with my fingers will shortly appear.

Of that I can be certain.
I am certain.

 

[max_freakout]

are you insane?

I don't know, but I doubt it.

 

[i-am-your-idea]

I don't know, but I doubt it.

sorry, hope that didnt come across as rude.

it just seemed like an absurd statement.

 

[cesare]

i don't feel certain of this though, in fact i feel totally uncertain about it

but i AM certain of it because it is true

knowledge is impossible

You see, you're doing it again. The second and third lines.

 

[max_freakout]

I am certain I am using a device called a keyboard right now!

do you feel certain that you are using a device called a keyboard right now?

 

[max_freakout]

You see, you're doing it again. The second and third lines.

what is 'it'?

 

[weltweit]

i mean a lion can kill a deer without having to be certain about how to do it, the ability just comes naturally

But they cannot, they have to learn. At first they are a disaster at hunting, they make too much noise and scare away the prey, they dont know how to chase or encircle etc etc .. basically they have to learn how to hunt from their mother.

 

[cesare]

sorry, hope that didnt come across as rude.

it just seemed like an absurd statement.

It did a bit, but no worries.

I just needed you to clarify what you meant in terms of sense rather than the typo.

whatever you focus your attention on grows.

Grows in significance?
Grows into certainty?

Grows in/to what?

 

[i-am-your-idea]

But they cannot, they have to learn. At first they are a disaster at hunting, they make too much noise and scare away the prey, they dont know how to chase or encircle etc etc .. basically they have to learn how to hunt from their mother.

“Man has always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much...the wheel, New York, wars and so on...while all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time. But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man...for precisely the same reason.”

- douglas adams

 

[max_freakout]

But they cannot, they have to learn. At first they are a disaster at hunting, they make too much noise and scare away the prey, they dont know how to chase or encircle etc etc .. basically they have to learn how to hunt from their mother.

do they have to learn how to grow bigger when they are babies?


maybe the ability to hunt develops just like the physical body of the lion develops

 

[cesare]

what is 'it'?

Making a statement of certainty when you only feel certain.

 

[i-am-your-idea]

It did a bit, but no worries.

I just needed you to clarify what you meant in terms of sense rather than the typo.



Grows in significance?
Grows into certainty?

Grows in/to what?

what it grows into is entirely mysterious.

 

[max_freakout]

Making a statement of certainty when you only feel certain.

but i don't feel the slightest bit certain about it!

anything could be true

 

[i-am-your-idea]

but i don't feel the slightest bit certain about it!

anything could be true

in a way, you are your universe and contain any feelings of certainty that may be contained within it.

you feel certainty, even if it is only though imagining the feelings of certainty that other people possess.

imagination is as real as anything else.

nothing is absolute, why say you dont feel certainty?

 

[cesare]

what it grows into is entirely mysterious.

So what you were saying is this:

It wasn't intended as a strange loop, it was a personal observation. To put it another way, people who regularly present opinions as facts have already reached conclusions that they are certain about.

whatever you focus your attention on grows into something entirely mysterious.

I'm still no clearer as to what your overall point is tbh.