Is the urge for certainty rooted in human nature?

[nosos]

My point was that they all fall. Joking aside it was basically a request for you to explain your reply to bluestreak a little more.

 

[Aldebaran]

Your beliefs are a matter for you.

Hardly. Belief is nothing else but a construct of the human mind.

salaam.

 

[nosos]

Hardly. Belief is nothing else but a construct of the human mind.

salaam.

Well it goes without saying that beliefs require a believer, no?

 

[cesare]

Hardly. Belief is nothing else but a construct of the human mind.

salaam.

It must be nice to be so certain.

 

[Knotted]

I suspect many of them were somewhat autistic and sought to escape the ambiguities inherent in human social life by retreating into the 'certain' a priori truths they found inside their own minds.

Hmmm.

I agree with Violent Panda. I think that there is a huge difference between the certainty of various philosophical system builders and plain ordinary certainty. But what I want to stress is that you must start with the actual sociological/historical practices in order to give the label meaning rather than start with an imagining meaning and splurge it onto the historical/sociological practices.

Ism philosophy is a splurge gun. Great fun, can be very powerful (ask Mao), but backfires and everything just gets messy. It makes me want to play that jarring chord on the piano. Dum-da-da-dum-dum.

 

[Aldebaran]

Well it goes without saying that beliefs require a believer, no?

Not necessarily true from the perspective of the believer who percieves it as knowledge, while it is only a suggestion thereof.

salaam.

 

[Aldebaran]

It must be nice to be so certain.

Certitude is not a requirement for being able to reason.

salaam.

 

[Knotted]

I keep saying 'sociological'. I probably should say 'anthropological' instead.

 

[cesare]

Certitude is not a requirement for being able to reason.

salaam.

Certitude can hinder reasoning.

 

[merlin wood]

If the urge for certainty was not human nature why should so many seek and so strongly adhere to the irrational beliefs of a religion? So it's only with all the advances of modern science (as well as the relative welfare and security provided by such knowledge) that many have rejected the religious beliefs, because their foundations can be contrasted and rejected in favour of the demonstable and practically usable findings provided by scientific methods.

Although, even then, the US, as the most technologically advanced society, is apparently still one of the most religious.

 

[Aldebaran]

Certitude can hinder reasoning.

That is not what I meant.

salaam.

 

[Aldebaran]

My point was that they all fall. Joking aside it was basically a request for you to explain your reply to bluestreak a little more.

Gravity is one of these subjects people think they can be certain about while it only appears to be a stable constancy.

salaam.

 

[cesare]

That is not what I meant.

salaam.

I know. Did you understand my reason for making the point I did and do you agree or disagree with it?

 

[Aldebaran]

That certitude can hinder reasoning? I would say it first of all frames reasoning and secondly all reasoning stops if one can't bring the mind to reason outside the self-imposed frame.

salaam.

 

[cesare]

That certitude can hinder reasoning? I would say it first of all frames reasoning and secondly all reasoning stops if one can't bring the mind to reason outside the self-imposed frame.

salaam.

By 'certitude', which of these do you mean:

1. The state of being certain; complete assurance; confidence.
2. Sureness of occurrence or result; inevitability.
3. Something that is assured or unfailing:

 

[i-am-your-idea]

That certitude can hinder reasoning? I would say it first of all frames reasoning and secondly all reasoning stops if one can't bring the mind to reason outside the self-imposed frame.

salaam.

people are so very sure about things, that they can go into a state of SHOCK when the frame changes.

'i'm not always right' - is an extremely difficult thing for some people to say.

Feeling certainty becomes a lifestyle.

 

[cesare]

I have noticed that people who make statements without qualifiers tend to be the ones most likely to seek/require certainty.

 

[i-am-your-idea]

I have noticed that people who make statements without qualifiers tend to be the ones most likely to seek/require certainty.

is that sentence deliberately a strange loop, or are you going to explain it?

 

[cesare]

While I'm thinking about it (and to avoid a several page derail over meaning), Aldebaran, would you mind clarifying what type of reasoning you're referring to as well?

 

[cesare]

is that sentence deliberately a strange loop, or are you going to explain it?

It wasn't intended as a strange loop, it was a personal observation. To put it another way, people who regularly present opinions as facts have already reached conclusions that they are certain about.

 

[CJohn]

Is the urge for certainty rooted in human nature? Is there some aspect(s) of what it is to be a person living in the world that leaves us longing for certainty: maybe to provide a secure frame of reference to orientate our understanding of ourselves and our lives.

I think certainty is essentially narcissistic, to the extent that it is rooted in a sense of omnipotence and omnipresence, which themselves require the absence of the other and difference.

Perhaps we only become aware of ourselves as subjects at the point in which certainty breaks down. In the gap between what I need and what I have, when I can no longer be 'convinced' of my omnipotence and of all the conditions being met. There is something essentially traumatising about this 'realisation' and I think there are many complex psychological transformations that occur to try and secure some sense of safety in the context of what becomes a persecutory environment. That is, in such a position we are under constant threat of annihilation and try and shore up some sense of safety.

In the end - the developmental task of - being fully human is (to my mind) about being able to hold oneself together as a person in the face of uncertainty and complexity. There is something tragic about this stance in that there is a realisation of ones own failings and that of the others, we are introduced into a world of shame and guilt. Seeking certainty defends us from these painful feelings, however the price of this is that we enter a fragmented and shallow existence.

 

[i-am-your-idea]

It wasn't intended as a strange loop, it was a personal observation. To put it another way, people who regularly present opinions as facts have already reached conclusions that they are certain about.

whatever you focus your attention on grows.

 

[max_freakout]

certainty is purely a fantasy of the human ego

other animals don't fool themselves that they possess certain knowledge

 

[weltweit]

Where is this "urge for certainty"?

As far as I am concerned the sun will rise tomorrow just as it has every morning for the duration of my life. Do I seek certainty, no but all the same it is very likely.

 

[max_freakout]

there is a very important difference between 'being certain' and 'feeling certain'

 

[weltweit]

certainty is purely a fantasy of the human ego

other animals don't fool themselves that they possess certain knowledge

Yet the hunting Lion knows just where to bite into the falling Gazelle in order to efficiently convert it from prey animal into food.

The Elephant knows the shortest way to the next water hole.

 

[max_freakout]

I'm certain I'm sitting at a computer typing out an argument about certainty.

are you certain of this? or do you feel certain of this?

 

[max_freakout]

My point was that they all fall. Joking aside it was basically a request for you to explain your reply to bluestreak a little more.

the next one might not fall

 

[weltweit]

are you certain of this? or do you feel certain of this?

I am certain I am typing a post at my computer which will shortly be displayed via the www on a forum in a thread about certainty.

Of that I am certain.

But I am not seeking certainty, I have no need for certainty, no urge for it, I just am certain.

 

[max_freakout]

Yet the hunting Lion knows just where to bite into the falling Gazelle in order to efficiently convert it from prey animal into food.

The Elephant knows the shortest way to the next water hole.

do they feel certain of this though? of is it just instinct? could they doubt it?