Is the UK political left helping the BNP

[butchersapron]

Sorry, these are what forces? Forces at your command?

 

[audiotech]

Vote labour/tory/lib-dem come june says MC5.

Vote tactically, vote often is my stance.

 

[brasicritique]

You're drowning. You're supporting a strategy to beat the far-right that contains those forces that currently produce support for the far right and the conditions in which it breeds. You are all over the place.

No forces to call on? What am i -a General or something? Have you already militarised this struggle in your brain or something? Fantasy stuff.

Teranosuaros 5

Diplodocus 0

 

[audiotech]

Sorry, these are what forces? Forces at your command?

Once again.

The forces include trade unionists, faith and community groups, Labour party members and individuals from a variety of political backgrounds and those with none.

 

[audiotech]

Teranosuaros 5

Diplodocus 0

 

[butchersapron]

And again, what are these forces - they are elements of civil society that searchlight/hope-not-hate are trying to use to further a vote labour/tory/lib-dem agenda, precisely the agenda that has led to the growth in the far right.

 

[audiotech]

And again, what are these forces - they are elements of civil society that searchlight/hope-not-hate are trying to use to further a vote labour/tory/lib-dem agenda, precisely the agenda that has led to the growth in the far right.

They are building an anti-BNP vote.

 

[butchersapron]

Yes, as i said, vote tory/lib-dem/labour.

 

[agricola]

They are building a BNP vote.

Quote fixed.

 

[brasicritique]

Yes, as i said, vote tory/lib-dem/labour.

you are right

 

[purplex]

Every time the Daily Mail, the Sun or the Telegraph tells lies about immigration and foreigners, the BNP gains votes. Theyve told so many lies for so long, those lies have become truths in the minds of many. The BNP use populist policies that provide imaginary solutions to these imagined problems.
The media is going to keep on until they get their conservative paymasters in power, which is due at the next election. Working class people feel failed by Labour, middle class people feel failed by Labour. It is inevitable.
Challenge them all you like at the ballot box it wont do any good while the media publish so many lies.
So to answer the question, it matters not a jot whether they walk round like fascist Mr. Bumps, people dont vote for a party because they feel sorry for them. Its a ridiculous proposition.

 

[audiotech]

Yes, as i said, vote tory/lib-dem/labour.

There is no information given on who people should vote for.

However, there's been talk recently about how voting for independents could affect the BNP vote?

 

[audiotech]

Quote fixed.

I would appreciate you not doing that in future thanks.

 

[brasicritique]

it is true though

 

[audiotech]

it is true though

Is it fuck.

 

[brasicritique]

Is it fuck.

it is fuck - your solution is basically getting people to vote for the very people who are resonsible for creating this mess.

 

[Fedayn]

Do you not see how very vapid and lacking in any thought that view is?

It was a question, that butchersapron has already pointed out the idiocy of your view i'll leave you to it.... However lkeaving you and the likes of you to it hasn't got ius very far has it? How many more rounds of don't vote nazi, bnp = nazi failures will it take you to see what's happening?

 

[durruti02]

It is true that Searchlight are working with the mainstream parties, particularly Labour party and trade union members. What other broad forces are there to work with to halt the rise of the BNP? ...

I would agree that just shouting slogans is not enough, but alongside that anti-fascist work is being done, links are being made in communities and groups are being built.

To highlight this it's obvious reading the reports that some work in the Nort West has been done and that links have been made with the community there. This has led to the BNP being driven from their community yesterday and taking their nasty politics with them.

1) you ignore the mass on people who are not Labour supporters ( or who only reluctantly vote for them come election day ) .. people in all the differrent walks of life .. what is needed is yes to build a united front .. but not with those who create the problems in the first place .. the idea is daft .. btw the may be parts of the country where the labour party has still some worth .. i am not sure where that is

2) no the only links being made in the searchlight campaign are on the basis of being simply against the bnp .. no analysis of the bnps rise .. so the coalition will collapse the moment any attempt to look at the role of NuLab is made

3) driven out? really .. one skirmish .. wait for the next election .. we have heard this talk before

 

[durruti02]

He genuinely doesn't. But within that idiot opening line there's also this other very revealing gem



He can't think of any other forces than the labout party and TU's. Not local communities. But the Labour party in their areas. What a telling and rather pathetic admission.

And for the record Searchlight are working very very closely with lib-dems producing a joint pamphlet with them - the idea that it's just labour or classcical labour movement orgs they worik with is bullshit. It's one step away from calling openly (rather than the current tacit imp-lication that) for a tory vote.

^^^^

 

[durruti02]

Well, i'd like to know what reports - MC5 usually relies on LUAF and Searchlight and takes what they say as gospel. Voting figures and indications that the NW as a whole is likley to elect a BNP MEP in few months time rather undermines the generically rosy picture these sources pump out.

"Links in communities" -all very nice sounding, but what does it mean? I suspect at best it means contacting the locall labour party networks to hand out some hope-not-hate leaflets and a local labour bigwig giving a talk. Hope-not-hate have been very clear and upfront ablout what their campaign is, it's a turnout campaign and that's it - it's not there to deal with the local issues that are producing votes and support for the far right, that's all these links are concerned with - rasing turnout.

^^ yes that is exactly what is happennning ..

 

[durruti02]

The forces include trade unionists, faith and community groups, Labour party members and individuals from a variety of political backgrounds and those with none. They don't produce support from the far-right, as they do not produce the conditions in which the far-right breed.

don't be dishonest now MC .. you know full well the searchlight campaign seeks endorsement from council leaders and Nu Lab bosses NOT just 'labour party members' .. an entirely diff proposition for these people DO 'produce the conditions in which the far right breed'

 

[audiotech]

it is fuck - your solution is basically getting people to vote for the very people who are resonsible for creating this mess.

No, it's deliberately setting out to mobolise the anti-BNP vote.

 

[agricola]

Is it fuck.

Its not though, is it - as brasic says.

The BNP are IMHO currently successful for two reasons -

i) the broad agreement between their stated policies and the general theme of large parts of the media and (especially) government.

This theme, which is incredibly populist in terms of its pantheon of hate figures (muslims/chavs/asylum seekers/paedos/bankers) is not, where the Government is concerned, usually matched by any kind of action at all.

Brown harped on about british jobs for british workers and yet did nothing, or less than nothing, to bring it about. Purnell harped on about cracking down on dole cheats and yet has done little to bring it about. Blunkett and a couple of other home secretaries exploited (indeed, may have fed) the anti-paedo campaign of the News of the World and yet did flip all to improve the monitoring of child sex offenders. Numerous ministers criticize judicial decisions as being soft/lenient and yet are themselves responsible for the guidelines that cause those decisions to be made.

This pattern has been repeated time and time again since 1997.

This gap between rhetoric and policy is probably the biggest single generator of the BNP vote on a national level - the populist views are espoused at a high level, legitimized and yet not acted upon. The BNP point this out, and are attacked for holding views which senior members of this Government have claimed to hold themselves.

What needs to happen is that the media, and especially Government, need to stop legitimizing some of these views in the first place.

ii) The (usually local) circumstances that cause disaffection with political parties in general and Labour in particular.

When every political party selects candidates that might as well be completely interchangeable between the main parties, parachutes them in to some areas without local agreement, forces those candidates to ignore local issues (via the whip system) and generally ignores the voters of "safe" seats for decades it should not come as a surprise that people become disaffected.

In short, people are not going to vote Labour to oppose the BNP, when the reason they vote BNP is because they hate Labour.

 

[audiotech]

don't be dishonest now MC .. you know full well the searchlight campaign seeks endorsement from council leaders and Nu Lab bosses NOT just 'labour party members' .. an entirely diff proposition for these people DO 'produce the conditions in which the far right breed'

Searchlight work with both and UAF concentrate elsewhere, as do LMHR.

Your ultra-leftist abstention leads nowhere.

 

[durruti02]

There is no information given on who people should vote for.

However, there's been talk recently about how voting for independents could affect the BNP vote?

lol .. who else is there for 95% of the people in these areas to vote for than lib lab con

independants? lol now IF searchlight was proposing a campaign of standing or candidates that would be entirely diff debate with its own pluses and minuses .. but it is not what they are talking about unless you are Nick Lowles and i claim my £5 ..

 

[durruti02]

1)Searchlight work with both and UAF concentrate elsewhere, as do LMHR.

Your ultra-leftist abstention leads nowhere.

1) work with both? lol what both those who create the conditons for the growth of fascism AND those like John McD who oppose them?? daft

2) ultra left abstention? you talking to me?? idiot ..

p.s. when iwca set up they did not settle on the old BUF UM NF strongholds of bunhill, finsbury, hoxton and haggerston for no reason .. in all that time even when the bnp are trying to raise their banner in their other old stronghold of TH they have not even bothered in these areas .. abstentionism?? .. god you really are a muppet .. get yer facts right beofre you start propagandising on here please ..

you are putting out so much disinformation it doesn'lt look good

 

[audiotech]

1) you ignore the mass on people who are not Labour supporters ( or who only reluctantly vote for them come election day ) .. people in all the differrent walks of life .. what is needed is yes to build a united front .. but not with those who create the problems in the first place .. the idea is daft .. btw the may be parts of the country where the labour party has still some worth .. i am not sure where that is

2) no the only links being made in the searchlight campaign are on the basis of being simply against the bnp .. no analysis of the bnps rise .. so the coalition will collapse the moment any attempt to look at the role of NuLab is made

3) driven out? really .. one skirmish .. wait for the next election .. we have heard this talk before

Your opposition to working with those forces who wish to fight fascism is ultra-left and is both dangerous and idiotic.

 

[durruti02]

In short, people are not going to vote Labour to oppose the BNP, when the reason they vote BNP is because they hate Labour.

yes BUT what Searchlight UAF do is create a campaign that does bring out new voters .. look at the recent Hyde by election results ..

so we see a pattern of increasing BNP votes but ALSO increasing Labour ( almost always) votes .. this DOES stop the BNP winning seats ( usually) but what is really worrying is it does nothing to stop the increase in support of the BNP ... and indeed is then used by the bnp to say that their 'white english' voters are being disenfranchised .. maybe to a level where one day it will really explode ..

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

No, but the left shouldnt continue as they are.

We must unite around getting the truth about the economy to people through any propaganda means at our disposal.
The fash narrative is false. The anti-capitalist narrative has the truth on why we are in the shit.

 

[audiotech]

1) work with both? lol what both those who create the conditons for the growth of fascism AND those like John McD who oppose them?? daft

2) ultra left abstention? you talking to me?? idiot ..

p.s. when iwca set up they did not settle on the old BUF UM NF strongholds of bunhill, finsbury, hoxton and haggerston for no reason .. in all that time even when the bnp are trying to raise their banner in their other old stronghold of TH they have not even bothered in these areas .. abstentionism?? .. god you really are a muppet .. get yer facts right beofre you start propagandising on here please ..

you are putting out so much disinformation it doesn'lt look good

The IWCA stood against the BNP in Thurrock and received less votes than the BNP. They haven't stood many councillors since?