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Is the Human Race still evolving?

Demosthenes said:
Well, no I reckon we're just drifting at the moment.
That's what evolution does. Evolution is really just numbers vs death. You throw large numbers of a species at the world and death kills them all. If they don't breed in time before dying then it's Death 1 - Species 0. The species gets a point for every successful brood, and death gets a point for a non-breed. The game never ends until death's score equals all the people who have ever lived.
 
Idaho said:
That's what evolution does. Evolution is really just numbers vs death. You throw large numbers of a species at the world and death kills them all. If they don't breed in time before dying then it's Death 1 - Species 0. The species gets a point for every successful brood, and death gets a point for a non-breed. The game never ends until death's score equals all the people who have ever lived.

So human evolution is nothing about the irreversible extension of knowledge through scientific research or about technological invention, or the extension of awareness of the world through global mass media and the internet?

Although, yes, as far as the way in which human beings generally behave is concerned we are just drifting.

But then I say hang on tick, there's just one more big scientific development to go, and that's the biggest of all.

Viva the Real World Revolution!!
 
merlin wood said:
So human evolution is nothing about the irreversible extension of knowledge through scientific research or about technological invention
Not in the usual biological use of the word, except in as much as it affects the frequency of alleles in yer population; which it does.
 
merlin wood said:
So human evolution is nothing about the irreversible extension of knowledge through scientific research or about technological invention, or the extension of awareness of the world through global mass media and the internet?

Correct. Evolution is nothing to do with those things.
But then I say hang on tick, there's just one more big scientific development to go, and that's the biggest of all.

Viva the Real World Revolution!!
Is like the coming of the messiah?
 
merlin wood said:
So human evolution is nothing about the irreversible extension of knowledge through scientific research or about technological invention, or the extension of awareness of the world through global mass media and the internet?
Idaho said:
Correct. Evolution is nothing to do with those things.
Says you. But gains in scientific knowledge and technological inventions are as potentially permanent as any physical biological evolution.
merlin wood said:
But then I say hang on tick, there's just one more big scientific development to go, and that's the biggest of all.
Viva the Real World Revolution!!
Idaho said:
Is like the coming of the messiah?
Much, much better than that, because this Revolution will be based purely upon a knowledge of natural fact.
 
merlin wood said:
Says you. But gains in scientific knowledge and technological inventions are as potentially permanent as any physical biological evolution.


Much, much better than that, because this Revolution will be based purely upon a knowledge of natural fact.
How come talking to you devout marxists feels exactly like talking to devout christians?
 
Idaho said:
How come talking to you devout marxists feels exactly like talking to devout christians?

Marxists? Who said anything about Marxism?

Nah. These natural facts are nothing to do with a theory of human history, which isn't fact anyway.

These scientific facts are to do with why the present physics of the forces alone is so bad at explaining how the universe has come to possess its presently observed natural form as matter and the energy it radiates. And so it's about quantum mechanics and how all matter can exist despite the forces acting within and upon it, about how this evidencr on the smallest scale can be clearly related to the nature of the mind and consciousness, as well as to a Big Bang cosmological theory.

So that only from the combined evidence examined it where it acts can enough details be found, justified and described of a single invisble cause that acts universally in addition to all the forces.
 
Idaho said:
How come talking to you devout marxists feels exactly like talking to devout christians?

Marxists? Who said anything about Marxism?

Nah. These natural facts are nothing to do with a theory of human history, which isn't fact anyway.

These scientific facts are to do with why the present physics of the forces alone is so bad at explaining how the universe has come to possess its presently observed natural form as matter and the energy it radiates. And so it's about quantum mechanics and how all matter can exist despite the forces acting within and upon it, about how this evidencr on the smallest scale can be clearly related to the nature of the mind and consciousness, as well as to a Big Bang cosmological theory.

So that only from the combined evidence examined of where it acts can enough details be found, justified and described of a single invisble cause that acts universally in addition to all the forces.
 
8ball said:
I want graphs, dammit :mad:

Well, you asked for it:
300px-

Rotation curve of a typical spiral galaxy: predicted [ie by Newtons laws of gravity](A) and observed (B). Dark matter can explain the velocity curve having a "flat" appearance out to a large radius [but not very well and this invisible stuff has never been directly detected in some 40 experiments so far designed to look for it since 1987]

Correlation.jpg

Line 1: prediction of no correlation in a Bell inequality experimental test for quantum entanglement at a distance.
Line QM: entanglement correlation as predicted by quantum mechanics, and as measured in many experiments since 1974.
 
Yeah, I'm familiar with the first concept, but can't make out the axes on the second graph. Plus I'm not that familiar with QM beyond the 'popular science' guff, so your thesis may be lost on me.
 
8ball said:
Yeah, I'm familiar with the first concept, but can't make out the axes on the second graph. Plus I'm not that familiar with QM beyond the 'popular science' guff, so your thesis may be lost on me.

You really don't need to know much more than that, as predicted by quantum mechanics and described by Bell's theorem, effects at a distance have been detected to occur in experiments as correlations between quentum objects that have not been measured to vary with distance. The graph is just a visual expression in a curved line of the quantum correlation as compared with no correlation in a straight line, which would mean no entanglement effect at a distance.

The crucial question is: given that quantum objects are entangled at a distance what, if anything, could cause this effect and how so? And from any the quantum evidence alone there is just no definite answer to this question. Nor is there any such answer as to whether or, if so, how there is any such cause of quantum wave behaviour.

And such that just from any evidence of the world on smallest scale it cannot be shown that or how a distinct cause acts universally in addition to the forces with the effects that matter can remain in its forms and subatomic organisation as atoms and molecules despite the action of all the forces.
 
But anyway, I would suggest that the human species has been continually evolving ever since such inventions as, especially, ways of producing fire and the wheel and then printing, which led to near universal literacy.

And then the development of scientific methods and the knowledge it has provided has brought about the modern world with, for example, its vast extension of knowledge of universe on the astronomical scale, as well as the small scale, which has led, especially, to all the practical uses that have been made of electical energy, the production of synthetic materials and the treatment of medical conditions.

While I'm saying that just one big leap in our scientific knowledge is required for human beings to evolve so that they can survive and thrive in such a modern world.
 
weltweit said:
Is the human race still evolving?

Of course it is, why would it have stopped?

It would only have stopped evolving if it had reached perfection for the state of the environment in which it lives.

not true... the last bit

rather stop evolving they would evolve to stay the same... for example anyone who can't smell would probably not have a vast surviving lineage...

(i can't smell due to some genetic issue)

in the same way sharks do not change significatly as the shark model is very good at doing what it does
 
According to this week's New Scientist, not only are we still evolving, but the rate of evolution is apparently accelerating.

Link to the story here

Cut and paste below, cos you need to subscribe to get the story at the lonk

Modern times causing human evolution to accelerate
14 December 2007
From New Scientist Print Edition. Subscribe and get 4 free issues.
David Holzman



Human evolution is speeding up. Around 40,000 years ago our genes began to evolve much faster. By 5000 years ago they were evolving 30 to 40 times faster than ever before and it seems highly likely that we continue to evolve at this super speed today.

Our population explosion and rapidly changing lifestyles seem to be the drivers of this acceleration, the discovery of which contradicts the widely held notion that our technological and medical advances have removed most of the selection pressures acting upon us.

This stunning insight into humanity's development comes from a wide-ranging study of human gene variants gathered by the international HapMap project. Investigators led by John Hawks of the University of Wisconsin, Madison, studied 3.9 million simple differences in DNA called single nucleotide polymorphisms (SNPs, pronounced "snips") from 270 individuals, including people of Han Chinese, Japanese, Yoruban and northern European extraction. This revealed several pieces of evidence that provide clear support for the idea that human evolution is accelerating.

The first is that the genomes of the people within the study group contain a relatively high number of new genetic traits, marked in the genome by the presence of a relatively new SNP. Such SNPs are known to be linked to particular genes and affect their activity, and these mutations have been linked to significant changes in our lifestyle. For example, we evolved greater resistance to the cold as people migrated north out of Africa, and to infectious diseases such as smallpox, yellow fever and typhus, which became important killers when we began settled living. The advent of agriculture and changes to our diets also influenced our genome.

This high rate of mutation was caused by the explosive increase in the population - as more people are born, more mutations can be introduced into the gene pool. Darwin himself predicted that larger populations would evolve more quickly than smaller ones, something that has since been shown in insects and bacteria.

However, if humans had always evolved at the same fast pace, you would then expect to see relatively few SNPs surviving today, as selection would have weeded out most of the unfavourable genes they are linked to. "But when we look at the genome, we see that the variation is relatively high," says Hawks. In fact, the researchers managed to confirm that around 1800 genes, or roughly 7 per cent of the total in the human genome, have changed under the influence of natural selection within the past 50,000 years, a figure they first revealed in 2005 after conducting two similar but smaller genetic analyses. That is roughly the same proportion of genes that were altered in maize when humans domesticated it from its wild ancestors.

That high level of variation means our rate of evolution must have speeded up considerably, as there has not been time for many SNPs to be selected out. The researchers say this started around 40,000 years ago. Evolution then continued to accelerate until a peak, which they found occurred in Europeans and Yoruban Africans 5250 and 8000 years ago respectively (Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, DOI: 10.1073/pnas.0707650104). However, these dates are almost certainly artificial. The researchers believe it is likely that evolution has continued apace, but too little time has elapsed for more recent adaptive mutations to emerge in the study's sample.

The research also explains why there are just 40,000 or so differences in the number of adaptive SNPs seen between humans and chimps. If humans had always been evolving at a constant rate, instead of undergoing a recent acceleration in evolution, then this number would be in the millions.

“If humans always evolved at a constant rate, then the genetic differences between us and chimps would be far greater”
These findings flout the conventional wisdom that humans had reached their fully modern form in the mid-Palaeolithic, as stated in textbooks, says anthropologist Clark Larsen, of the Ohio State University in Columbus, who was not involved in the study.

"People have always thought that the force of selection had decreased, because it became easier to survive," says Hawks. In fact, he says, disease, population growth, sedentary lifestyles, and changes in diet, technology and social group size have greatly increased the forces of selection.

Human Evolution - Follow the incredible story in our comprehensive special report.

From issue 2634 of New Scientist magazine, 14 December 2007, page 8-9
 
Shippou-Chan said:
not true... the last bit

rather stop evolving they would evolve to stay the same... for example anyone who can't smell would probably not have a vast surviving lineage...

(i can't smell due to some genetic issue)

in the same way sharks do not change significatly as the shark model is very good at doing what it does

Well if evolving to stay the same is evolving then, yes I agree with you.

But in many ways the current environment at least in the industrialised west does not put so many demands on humans, we have health services to keep those well who would in ancient times not have survived. We have glasses for example for those with bad vision, bad vision which in ancient times would have meant you were unable to hunt and therefore unable to feed a family.

Because of medicine and science we are arguably evolving backwards and being able to live and breed with conditions which would have been very disadvantageous in for example stone age man.

Perhaps the gene pool is becoming more varied not less in the current environment.
 
we are adapting to our enviroment... as a tool making species that is in out nature... i wouldn't say it stops evolution as a large number of primates were tool using... Neanderthals were tool using to some degree
 
chooch said:
I have a sneaking suspicion this thread isn't being read in full ;)


I admit to not having read it at all... I'm interested, but busy today.

Was that already linked/posted/ a redundant or irrelevant point?

Sorry.
 
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