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Is the fear of the BNP gaining power overhyped?

Is the fear of the BNP gaining power overhyped?

  • yes

    Votes: 31 55.4%

  • No

    Votes: 17 30.4%

  • maybe

    Votes: 7 12.5%

  • don't know

    Votes: 1 1.8%

  • don't care

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    56
From another angle: If the fascists get more representation, does that support the idea that we are too much a nation of festering muppetdom?

Any group of people that can allow an elite to get away with what they currently do (looting, lying, war, eco-destruction, surveillance state etc.) perhaps has a serious element of psychology which just loves to be shat on.

Democracy is far from perfect but there sometimes is a sense of people getting exactly what they deserve from it.
 
taffboy gwyrdd said:
From another angle: If the fascists get more representation, does that support the idea that we are too much a nation of festering muppetdom?.
Click to expand...

personally i see it as collective failure by alternative politics and the inherent muppetdom amongst certain self appointed politcal wadicals in this forum

taffboy gwyrdd said:
Any group of people that can allow an elite to get away with what they currently do (looting, lying, war, eco-destruction, surveillance state etc.) perhaps has a serious element of psychology which just loves to be shat on.

Democracy is far from perfect but there sometimes is a sense of people getting exactly what they deserve from it.
Click to expand...

well thats opitimistic
 
taffboy gwyrdd said:
From another angle: If the fascists get more representation, does that support the idea that we are too much a nation of festering muppetdom?

Any group of people that can allow an elite to get away with what they currently do (looting, lying, war, eco-destruction, surveillance state etc.) perhaps has a serious element of psychology which just loves to be shat on.

Democracy is far from perfect but there sometimes is a sense of people getting exactly what they deserve from it.
Click to expand...


Not so sure the Greens need you as a doorstep canvasser...:D
 
Its worrying when the extreme right starts to look to many as the only solution to a situation.
Click to expand...


Yes, but the left and indeed civil society doesn't seem to get it, so you have UAF going on about 'nazis' while the more thuggish element discuss 'weapons of choice' to 'bash the fash'

meanwhile the BNP are going out and doing up pensioners gardens


its going nowhere.....
 
btw, that 8.5% required in the north west is not writ in stone, that's searchlights current estimate - it could go as little as 7.5% depending on the vote breakdown - i'll not pretend to udnerstand the in-and-outs of the sytem thy're using though. One other thing not touched on on yet is the possible collapse/stay at home of the labour vote
 
treelover said:
Yes, but the left and indeed civil society doesn't seem to get it, so you have UAF going on about 'nazis' while the more thuggish element discuss 'weapons of choice' to 'bash the fash'

meanwhile the BNP are going out and doing up pensioners gardens


its going nowhere.....
Click to expand...

Spot on Treelover.
 
wrong target, stalker, I'm pointing out the BNP's grass roots approach, not defending them, are you accusing me of that?
 
You're discussing the positive things they are doing without the negative things. Similarly you are discussing the negative things the left is doing without mentioning any positive things.

I can only guess as to your motivation.

Spammer.
 
butchersapron said:
btw, that 8.5% required in the north west is not writ in stone, that's searchlights current estimate - it could go as little as 7.5% depending on the vote breakdown - i'll not pretend to udnerstand the in-and-outs of the sytem thy're using though. One other thing not touched on on yet is the possible collapse/stay at home of the labour vote
Click to expand...

Accept all of that, and even if you did know the ins and outs of d'Hondt it would still be hard to predict what would be needed for a 4th party to get a seat: there are just too many variables.

I really think 7.5 is pessimistically low as the BNP target

8% at very least is what I'd think, and I hope that over a whole region they just wont get that. Stay at home Labour is a massive problem. Or quite a few Labour might vote fash on the sly.
 
brasicritique said:
No they vote bnp as none of those you mention contain any wc people imo and that is the problem.
Click to expand...

I disagree, if you define what you mean by wc in this context it would be helpful. The term is just such a can of worms. Nonetheless, I accept there is a vibe out there that the "white working class" has been betrayed by Labour and that the broad left have yet to succeed in advancing another narrative or platform. That's why I am impressed with No2EU as a project.

For the working class to turn in any way to fascism is profoundly depressing. It is as likely the lower middle class as well though. The current relatative rise has almost certainly taken lots more from Labour than Conservative.
No class is sacred or immune from stupidity.
 
Its not about stupity and that is a very glib thing to say . Facsism has always owed its success primarily to th experience of poverty and the reactions within society this generates.
 
taffboy gwyrdd said:
For the working class to turn in any way to fascism is profoundly depressing. It is as likely the lower middle class as well though. The current relatative rise has almost certainly taken lots more from Labour than Conservative.
No class is sacred or immune from stupidity.
Click to expand...

What is 'stupid' about it? People living on estates that have had funding, support, money and help systematically withdrawn or at best reduced to very little reject the parties in power. The only people seen and being heard are the BNP. And they're knocking on the doorsteps, making a noise, not treating people as irrelevant. There's nothing 'stupid' in them then thinking of or actually voting BNP. The extraodrinarily stupid thing is to expect thjem to keep voting for the very parties that are attacking their living standards to stop the BNP, that is the stupid bit of the equation.
 
taffboy gwyrdd said:
I disagree, if you define what you mean by wc in this context it would be helpful. The term is just such a can of worms.
.
Click to expand...

Its funny how i am always the one to have define what i mean by by 'class' especailly as a lot of you never bother to:rolleyes: .And if the defintion is a can of worms then blame marx and teel the anarchists posting links to there size 2 font article ridden fanzines:rolleyes:
 
Fedayn said:
What is 'stupid' about it? People living on estates that have had funding, support, money and help systematically withdrawn or at best reduced to very little reject the parties in power. The only people seen and being heard are the BNP. And they're knocking on the doorsteps, making a noise, not treating people as irrelevant. There's nothing 'stupid' in them then thinking of or actually voting BNP. The extraodrinarily stupid thing is to expect thjem to keep voting for the very parties that are attacking their living standards to stop the BNP, that is the stupid bit of the equation.
Click to expand...

Thats very much how things are working out on the ground sadly. I've seen this happen myself. It could quite easily have been avoided.
 
Zachor said:
Thats very much how things are working out on the ground sadly. I've seen this happen myself. It could quite easily have been avoided.
Click to expand...

Anmd yet you advocate a vote for a party that systematically set about attacking and dismantling the very public and welfare services that set this very train in motion?!
 
The BNP is less of a "threat" than Respect, and that's saying something. This is a party that's yet to get a single MP, and it would take more than a single MP to do anything. The election of councilors is disturbing, but the numbers are a tiny drop in the ocean.
 
Fedayn said:
What is 'stupid' about it? People living on estates that have had funding, support, money and help systematically withdrawn or at best reduced to very little reject the parties in power. The only people seen and being heard are the BNP. And they're knocking on the doorsteps, making a noise, not treating people as irrelevant. There's nothing 'stupid' in them then thinking of or actually voting BNP. The extraodrinarily stupid thing is to expect thjem to keep voting for the very parties that are attacking their living standards to stop the BNP, that is the stupid bit of the equation.
Click to expand...

In the vast majority of areas the BNP aren't as active as you describe, especially not in the context of a whole euro-region.

Why it is only the BNP who are "heard" with an alternative is a mystery. There are plenty of other narratives out there, but the media dont seem to want to play them up.

If a BNP vote isnt fascist or stupid it is certainly desperate and pathetic.
If anyone genuinelly thinks a fascist can improve their area to the point of voting for them, they are misguided.

How ironic it is that I get critiqued for saying these things about BNP votes (desperate, ignorant, misguided). Are they not politically correct enough for you?

The BNP are liars, criminals, racists, fascists. Judge a tree by the fruit - the motivations for the vote are going to be far more negative than positive.
 
taffboy gwyrdd said:
In the vast majority of areas the BNP aren't as active as you describe, especially not in the context of a whole euro-region.

Why it is only the BNP who are "heard" with an alternative is a mystery. There are plenty of other narratives out there, but the media dont seem to want to play them up.

If a BNP vote isnt fascist or stupid it is certainly desperate and pathetic.
If anyone genuinelly thinks a fascist can improve their area to the point of voting for them, they are misguided.

How ironic it is that I get critiqued for saying these things about BNP votes (desperate, ignorant, misguided). Are they not politically correct enough for you?

The BNP are liars, criminals, racists, fascists. Judge a tree by the fruit - the motivations for the vote are going to be far more negative than positive.
Click to expand...


Of course it's desperate, what else would it be? Where did I say it was positive or welcome, stop building straw men. But the constant drip of they're nazism thugs and fascists isn't working, so change the fucking record.
 
Just going over my memory of people I have spoken to or heard saying they were voting BNP, or thinking of it.

I cant remember one who wasnt stupid, misguided or desperate unless they were bona fide fascists / racists (see above anyway). Not one.

Oh how bloody dare I call stupid, desperate and misguded people for what they are. Send the reactionary anti-PC police to re-educate me. I'll put some herbal teas on.
 
Not locally in some areas. Stoke worries me - as does Barking, Oldham, outer East London, other northern towns...:(

I iz scared ov dem nanzeez
 
Oh, you seem to agree Fed.

And I agree that calling them nazis and thugs aint the answer (although lots of people dont know about the criminal thing, it is important to lay that out)

Blaming foreigners and other cultures here for our current troubles is a complete nonsense. The broad alternative isnt out there. There is more division on the left than on the ever simplistic far right.

But it aint all the lefts fault. The far right narrative is definitely preferred in the establishment media. Thus the establishment is complicit in any fascist success - hardly a first in history.
 
it's an extention of the mainstream political consensus - which is NOT the same as saying that tories/labour = fash btw
 
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