Is the Demise of the Labour left A Good Thing?
- Thread starter TremulousTetra
- Start date
glenquagmire
Rightwing NuLab apologist
poster342002 said:I agree - but all those things are well and truley kaput. The membership isn't there, the popular will for it isn't there. It's over, finished. All that's left over are the empty, hollow remains of those organisations which now just provide a few jobs for the beaurocrats (pretty much caretakers, now?) that preside over their sorry remnants.
If you can see past the national leadership you'll know that it's not kaput. In a bad way, sure, possibly its lowest ebb ever, but not kaput.
nino_savatte said:
A lot of people are put off by posting on here by your oh so interesting contributions....Check what some of the people said on the thread in general "Why i dont post in the politics forum"
I believe in a massive redistribution of wealth and power between rich and poor across the world...
As a Nationalist and a Liberal you are unable to understand this.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Oh the irony, the irony!tbaldwin said:
"Nurse, the screens!!!"
Yes, so you keep saying.
What you never say is exactly how you're going to achieve this where everyone else has failed.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
glenquagmire said:
The problem is that the mechanisms that used to see the "party faithful" through bad spells no longer exists, grassroots members are now massively limited in what they can put forward at conference, constrained at ward and constituency level by Central Office control freakery, and fuck knows how much other rubbish that has made local politics a swearword for many people.
I can't see the Labour party recovering as a body for representation of "left of centre" views. The New Labour legacy is that it's now a party entirely based on the middle ground, and if the middle ground is built on neo-liberal principles then that's ground the ideologues within the (New) Labour party are happy to occupy.
glenquagmire
Rightwing NuLab apologist
I can't disagree with anything that you say about the New Labour idealogues but know from experience that positive change is still possible at local level through the party.
One interesting thing is that new labour are so desperate for members they are allowing in the not unconsiderable amount of new members who are joining/rejoining so that they can vote for John.
anyway, for the londoners on here, (and others) why not go to the JM rally, its free and see whats going on, I'm going
anyway, for the londoners on here, (and others) why not go to the JM rally, its free and see whats going on, I'm going
rhys gethin
New Member
I used to think we'd gone back to the 1860's; now I begin to wonder if we haven't been wrecked back to before the Peasants' Revolt. People are, in different ways, drugged up to the eyeballs, sort of artificially thick. The Labour Party is just a melting iceberg, as far as I can see. Looks as if we just have to start again. Bugger!
glenquagmire said:
Perhaps by organising within local working class communities?
glenquagmire
Rightwing NuLab apologist
That's a fairly good description of my local labour party.
But maybe you'd like to expand on what you mean by that?
But maybe you'd like to expand on what you mean by that?
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
tbaldwin said:
If you understood irony, you'd employ it more often. But here, you show your ignorance of both irony and wit. Give it up.
You believe in the power of your own empty rhetoric. Phrases like "I believe in a massive redistribution of wealth and power between rich and poor across the world" mean nothing because you aren't sincere. To you, anyone who doesn't agree with your bizarre views is a "Tory" or worse.
You still sound like a National Socialist btw.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
tbaldwin said:
Even Marshall-Andrews is well to the left of you...but that isn't difficult in your case.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
For balders, in case you missed it.
The thread title is
Can you read? I don't think you can, no wonder you have such a bee in your bonnet about education.
The thread title is
Can you read? I don't think you can, no wonder you have such a bee in your bonnet about education.
DIY Manual
New Member
Red O said:
Didn't the Militant have 3 MPs 20 years ago? And grassroots support too- they were able to function etc?
Wasn't the half-arsed (couple of hundred out of thousands) witch-hunt against their members, but failed to stop Militant before they decided to go for the open turn?I've just bought some Socailism Today copies from ebay- from the organisation after the split i understand. I think the Militant had their orientation to the masses through work in the mass organisations spot on- fighting the right wing, and reaching for the ear of the workers. Sacraficing purity of politics in a bubble for politics that affects real people.
Just my 2p anyway.
I have some lingering faith in democracy = I am on the payrole lets listen to cliff... oh the politics of anal seepage
P.S that flyer is shit at least bob geldork has got a reasonably fuckble daughter to carry on his inane ramblings -who the fuck is doing all these shit left wing flyers? Listen up lefties get a good art designer you posters and flyers look pre-Photoshop and generate as much interest as Michael foots socks. And as for the names that you call all your splinter groups IE Workers this Workers that well you are using the language of the 1970s to try to change the 21st century. Hence geeky deluded ramblings and low /declining membership
glenquagmire said:
If you look at campaigns say against ALMOs or against the market within the NHS or say the Firefighters dispute workers are acrually fighting aginst New labour policies not for them. No doubt there are a few in the Labour party who supported workers in these disputes but the thing that haunts them time and time again is that it is their party that are implementing these policies. Even where Labour are in opposition to ALMos where they are in power they are for them.
Look at the pensions debacle for the public sector , we have Brown on about being thrifty and encouraging savings and his party taking the pensions off the public sector workers whilst allowing their mates in the City to announce obscene pension.
No doubt you will suggest that this is why we should join New labour and change its policies but this has been the clarion call from the Labour left for decades. As soon as it is election time everyone toes the line.
glenquagmire
Rightwing NuLab apologist
Plenty of Labour lefties are active in all of those campaigns, including myself. As a public services shop steward I've fought as hard as anyone against the LGPS cuts and would do so whatever party was implementing them. Being a Labour Party member doesn't stop you doing that. By trying to improve policy within the party and also fighting against bad policies when implemented by all governments and councils, socialists can fight on as many fronts as possible.
glenquagmire said:
Sounds like you are in permanent opposition to your party except for election times when no doubt you are out on the knocker saying vote for the party who attacked your pension?
biff curtains
Fred West or Fred Housego
treelover said:
A John4Leader nut accusing the Swaps of living in lala land You both are.DIY Manual said:Didn't the Militant have 3 MPs 20 years ago? And grassroots support too- they were able to function etc?
It was impossible to carry on working inside the labour Party at that time the witchunt was successful hundreds were expelled me included. The Youth wing was virtually shut down and other democratic structures were removed or made useless eg party conference. It was replaced by policy forums and focus groups. Branches were moribund even then so there was no point in staying in. The political analysis and the fall of the soviet union were also significant factors.
nightbreed
Im Bored
Macullam said:DIY Manual said:Didn't the Militant have 3 MPs 20 years ago? And grassroots support too- they were able to function etc?
It was impossible to carry on working inside the labour Party at that time the witchunt was successful hundreds were expelled me included. The Youth wing was virtually shut down and other democratic structures were removed or made useless eg party conference. It was replaced by policy forums and focus groups. Branches were moribund even then so there was no point in staying in. The political analysis and the fall of the soviet union were also significant factors.
I get your point Mac. Now answer why you havent been successful outside the LP.
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