Is the Demise of the Labour left A Good Thing?

[tbaldwin]

You're a socialist?

Well in the sense that i want to see a radical redistribution of wealth and power. That i oppose people like you and that twat Marshall Andrews who pretend to be Socialists.
And that i oppose your Liberalism and Nationalism.

 

[nino_savatte]

Well in the sense that i want to see a radical redistribution of wealth and power. That i oppose people like you and that twat Marshall Andrews who pretend to be Socialists.
And that i oppose your Liberalism and Nationalism.

Like I said: "You're a socialist"?

Nothing you have ever posted has convinced me of your 'socialism', balderdash.

 

[tbaldwin]

Like I said: "You're a socialist"?

Nothing you have ever posted has convinced me of your 'socialism', balderdash.

Yeah but you think Bob Marshall Andrews is a Socialist!!!!!!!!!

 

[nino_savatte]

Yeah but you think Bob Marshall Andrews is a Socialist!!!!!!!!!

Check the thread title, balderdash; it reads "Is the demise of the Labour left a good thing"?

Last time I checked, Marshall-Andrews was on the left of the party.

Do pay attention.

 

[tbaldwin]

Check the thread title, balderdash; it reads "Is the demise of the Labour left a good thing"?

Last time I checked, Marshall-Andrews was on the left of the party.

Do pay attention.

According to who?
You might accept that he is on the left wing.....Doesnt mean i have too....
The bloke is an utter prat.

 

[nino_savatte]

According to who?
You might accept that he is on the left wing.....Doesnt mean i have too....
The bloke is an utter prat.

So you wouldn't accept that Peter Bottomley, par exemple, is on the left in the Tory party...or do you have a problem distinguishing the ideological wings of the mainstream parties?

 

[nino_savatte]

Poor auld balders, he's got himself into a right auld tiswas.

 

[JoePolitix]

The demise of the Labour Left is shit. They're the only leftwing representation in Parliament we have at the moment. The candidates from the far left sects and petit bougeois parties can't usually win their deposit back, let alone win an election.

 

[tbaldwin]

So you wouldn't accept that Peter Bottomley, par exemple, is on the left of the Tory party...or do you have a problem distinguishing the ideological wings of the mainstream parties?

No i have trouble with people like you accepting the way the mainstream media tries to put everyone in neat little boxes.

 

[nino_savatte]

No i have trouble with people like you accepting the way the mainstream media tries to put everyone in neat little boxes.

Methinks the fool doth project too much.

 

[tbaldwin]

Methinks the fool doth project too much.

Bob Marshall Andrews QC....Nino's idea of a REAL SOCIALIST erm......

 

[Frank Drebben]

Because at local level they are often (not always) the most progressive force on councils and at national level the only realistic chance of effecting political change in the UK. Believe it or not, neither I nor most of my acquaintances in the LP are trots or wannabe councillors.

The same progressive force that sells off Council houses , makes cuts in services for the elderly and young and ignores the working class? No difference to the Tories in office and no different to the Lib Dems in opposition.As for effecting political change in the Uk they have merely continues with Thatchers obsession with the market.

 

[glenquagmire]

Some do, some Labour councils are better, but the recent wins for Tories and Lib Dems in Camden and Hammersmith & Fulham show how much worse they are at local level than even a New Labour council.

You're right about the current Labour government, of course, but I can't see the SWP or the CPGB about to enter number 10 and reverse all that.

 

[Red O]

Some do, some Labour councils are better, but the recent wins for Tories and Lib Dems in Camden and Hammersmith & Fulham show how much worse they are at local level than even a New Labour council.

You're right about the current Labour government, of course, but I can't see the SWP or the CPGB about to enter number 10 and reverse all that.

If this were true then I might still be bothered with the Labour party. But it isn't: the abolition of council housing, the selling off of community facilities, privatisation, City Academies, all pursued with the same enthusiasm at local level by Labour as the Lib Dems, certainly in London.

 

[ViolentPanda]

If this were true then I might still be bothered with the Labour party. But it isn't: the abolition of council housing, the selling off of community facilities, privatisation, City Academies, all pursued with the same enthusiasm at local level by Labour as the Lib Dems, certainly in London.

And there's certainly never been any shift by Labour (or any of the parties) toward repealing Thatcher's disgusting legislation disbarring local authorities from building new social housing.

 

[glenquagmire]

But how are you most likely to get that changed? In the Labour Party? Lib Dem/Tories? Or another irrelevant party that will never get anywhere near having the power to change anything.

 

[Combustible]

And there's certainly never been any shift by Labour (or any of the parties) toward repealing Thatcher's disgusting legislation disbarring local authorities from building new social housing.

Not by the party leaderships no. But there is far stronger pressure within the Labour Party for it, beyond just the 'Left' which is non existent in any other of the two major parties. So to be realistic the only possibilty of this changing is through Labour.

 

[nino_savatte]

Bob Marshall Andrews QC....Nino's idea of a REAL SOCIALIST erm......

You're a broken record, balders. I see no one has sprung to your aid. I wonder why?

You're not my idea of a REAL SOCIALIST. You're my idea of a national socialist.

 

[ViolentPanda]

But how are you most likely to get that changed? In the Labour Party? Lib Dem/Tories? Or another irrelevant party that will never get anywhere near having the power to change anything.

In terms of the current choice, spanning hard left to hard right, with the three "big parties" arrayed around the centre, I don't think ANY of them would be amenable to changing that position. The grassroots of various parties might, but policy-making is so far removed from the grassroots now that I can't see anything happening until it's too late*.

*By "too late" I mean once property prices tank (as they inevitably must), and we have thousands of families made homeless for whom there's no social housing available. The kind of fear that would promote in the electorate might bring change, but I can't see anything doing so.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Not by the party leaderships no. But there is far stronger pressure within the Labour Party for it, beyond just the 'Left' which is non existent in any other of the two major parties. So to be realistic the only possibilty of this changing is through Labour.

And it's a very weak possibility, purely because there is so little access to policy-formulation (and therefore power) for "ordinary" labour party members.

 

[glenquagmire]

The grassroots of one of those parties only. It's not much of a hope but it's that or nothing.

 

[ViolentPanda]

The grassroots of one of those parties only. It's not much of a hope but it's that or nothing.

I know.

Talk about a bloody "counsel of despair". eh?

 

[Combustible]

And it's a very weak possibility, purely because there is so little access to policy-formulation (and therefore power) for "ordinary" labour party members.

Unfortunately I couldn't agree more.

 

[treelover]

It's interesting that a fair few musicians including young radicals such as Rob of The Rub are supporting JM, or at least playing at his rally

EATURING:



Palme-D'or-winning director Ken Loach with an extract from his new film, yet to be seen in cinemas

Sheik "Crystaltones" Thompson – jazz legend known for playing with Courtney Pine, Branford Marsalis & Queen Latifah and leading his own bands "Dedeh" and "Cue Ensemble"

Steve Gribbin – popular comedian/satirist formerly of Skint Video

1st of May Band – music from Banner Theatre: political theatre and music entertaining and challenging for over 30 years

Dave Sharp – folk/blues/rock country/punk from the co-founder & lead guitarist of British rock band "The Alarm" and collaborator with Johnny Cash, Bob Dylan and Willie Nelson

Lost Marbles String Band – Appalachian blues

"Jago" Panjabi folk & dance

Rob The Rub – acoustic guitar with a political edge

 

[Red O]

But how are you most likely to get that changed? In the Labour Party? Lib Dem/Tories? Or another irrelevant party that will never get anywhere near having the power to change anything.

Fair play to you for trying, but trying to drag the Labour party back to the left didn't work twenty years ago when it was a more democratic organisation than it is today. What makes you think that New Labour are going to yield now?

 

[glenquagmire]

I have some lingering faith in democracy, even the bastardised form which exists at the top of the party. At local level, good things can still be achieved by the Labour Party if good people are involved.

 

[Irenick]

"You're a socialist"?

Well in the sense that i want to see a radical redistribution of wealth and power.

Do you know, they’re exactly the same sentiments of my local drug dealer? He sees a radical redistribution of wealth and power, in his direction, as a force for good. I don’t think he’s a Socialist though.

 

[poster342002]

I have some lingering faith in democracy, even the bastardised form which exists at the top of the party. At local level, good things can still be achieved by the Labour Party if good people are involved.

Peopel have been saying that for the past 30 years.

The show's over, the horse has bolted and long since died - so giving it another good flogging before shutting the barn door won't do any good.

 

[glenquagmire]

Until there's a serious alternative, it's the only show in town. And no, no existing left wing party is a serious alternative. The only way progressive change can ever come about at a national level is through a mass coalition of leftist forces intrinsically linked at every level to the trade unions. Anything else is useless or worse.

 

[poster342002]

Until there's a serious alternative, it's the only show in town. And no, no existing left wing party is a serious alternative. The only way progressive change can ever come about at a national level is through a mass coalition of leftist forces intrinsically linked at every level to the trade unions. Anything else is useless or worse.

I agree - but all those things are well and truley kaput. The membership isn't there, the popular will for it isn't there. It's over, finished. All that's left over are the empty, hollow remains of those organisations which now just provide a few jobs for the beaurocrats (pretty much caretakers, now?) that preside over their sorry remnants.