Is the AF experiencing a huge increase in members or what?

[JoeBlack]

I think I'll probably save joining a group until there's a rank + file union... Sorry to disappoint fellas

If that is what you think is needed shouldn't you be part of a group building one rather than waiting until someone else has done that work?

Or does 'rank and file' mean 'constructed for us by someone else'?

 

[Taxamo Welf]

yeh, we'd wipe the floor with 'em!

i don't know about that guys...
From what i've seen of both groups.... WP are harder. Haven't met Herbert 'i feel no pain' Read yet, he might swing it.

But it would be a game of 2 on one for most, so yes, i think the AF would eventually win.

what a sily discussion

 

[Wilf]

Around 75 paid-up members!
.

just think what a respect publicist could do with that figure:

"Britain's fastest growing .... Brilliant!.... steady progress .... innevitable .... packed meetings ... forefront .... polenta and rocket..

 

[Taxamo Welf]

If that is what you think is needed shouldn't you be part of a group building one rather than waiting until someone else has done that work?

Thats a good question - but i think icepick is active enough anyway.

BTW this was a genuine question: I'd like to know from some recent joinees why they joined rather than another group. I haven't seen the af do anything apart from publish prop. Ever.

 

[gawkrodger]

i don't know about that guys...
From what i've seen of both groups.... WP are harder. Haven't met Herbert 'i feel no pain' Read yet, he might swing it.

But it would be a game of 2 on one for most, so yes, i think the AF would eventually win.

what a sily discussion

ahh, just compare the number of trained martial artists in the two groups. I think we have little to fear

 

[gawkrodger]

i heard 80 at the bf. but what's five between friends?

what, CW have merged with us?

 

[october_lost]

Glad to hear the AF are doing well, things are looking up all round I know SF have increased quite dramatically....and remember boys and girls, anarchos are worth umpteen robotrots, so dont annoy me with comparisons with trotsick organisations, it just doesnt work.

 

[Taxamo Welf]

what do solfed think of the IWW revival attempt BTW?

 

[gawkrodger]

yeh, i was going to mention SF also increasing. Midlands numbers have gone from 0 about 4-5 years ago to 2

 

[rednblack]

yeh, i was going to mention SF also increasing. Midlands numbers have gone from 0 about 4-5 years ago to 2

 

[october_lost]

what do solfed think of the IWW revival attempt BTW?

IMO, and im not an expert, the stratergy of the IWW needs looking at, but I looked at their website (US) and was impressed by their output and outreach, they put most of us to shame.

 

[charlie mowbray]

ahh, just compare the number of trained martial artists in the two groups. I think we have little to fear

Yes, I'd think twice before messing with Nasty Ned, not to mention gawkrodger himself!!

 

[charlie mowbray]

what, CW have merged with us?

ARF! ARF!

 

[blamblam]

If that is what you think is needed shouldn't you be part of a group building one rather than waiting until someone else has done that work?

Nah, I just think for a viable rank and file union to come into existence it probably won't be initiated by a political grouplet, but a break-off from conventional unions, maybe following a big dispute or something. (Ditto, but perhaps more likely, effective rank + file networks.)

The decent anarchists/groups I think would then all largely dissolve into it anyway.

My comment was half tongue-in-cheek anyway. I think if there were a fed big enough that its internal organisational stuff didn't take up a very large proportion of its time I'd probably join it. You could equally apply your same argument thought, why don't I join one and try to make this happen, but I don't think it'd be worth the effort so much on a personal level. I mean I agree with most of the politics of AF, SF and IWW, and there's no fuckin way I'm going to do what Dan Jakapovic or whatever is doing. Heads, brick walls and bangings abound.

 

[JoeBlack]

Nah, I just think for a viable rank and file union to come into existence it probably won't be initiated by a political grouplet, but a break-off from conventional unions, maybe following a big dispute or something. (Ditto, but perhaps more likely, effective rank + file networks.)

Ah right - that makes more sense (although 'political grouplet's are often involved formally or informally with break-offs).

 

[Random]

I haven't seen the af do anything apart from publish prop. Ever.

Well they organised a demo against the murder of that Colombian lad on Mayday, and the London embassy. That's why I offered to join, but it looks like I'm still stuck in candidate membership status


And let's not under-estimate the importance of publishing prop, keeping ideas alive, offering anarcho analyses of current events, etc. For example, I'm gagging for a good libertarian analysis of the paris riots, and I'd hope that one of the AF's frog sister groups could provide it.

 

[gawkrodger]

BTW this was a genuine question: I'd like to know from some recent joinees why they joined rather than another group. I haven't seen the af do anything apart from publish prop. Ever.

you've not been looking too hard then

On a more serious note we really need to start bigging ourselves up a bit more

 

[Pilgrim]

you've not been looking too hard then

On a more serious note we really need to start bigging ourselves up a bit more

We do indeed.

Self-promotion is one thing the Swappies (Grrrr!) do very well. They have shown themselves very adept at attracting members by presenting themselves as the only game in town. Granted, most of those members then leave within a matter of weeks, but they are good at promoting themselves.

Maybe AF needs to discuss at conference, at a national level, what sort of promotion we are comfortable with. I don't mean suckering people in who may not know any better, but taking a serious look at the negative image that Anarchism and Anarchists have in the wider world.

I was in the meeting at the Bookfair, when we were discussing how to get out of the activist ghetto and how many calls to do so have been made and seemingly largely ignored. I'd advocate looking hard at the kind of tactics, propaganda and actions we are employing, then keeping what is useful and discarding what is not.

As far as actions go, maybe we should be planning our actions with regard to the way we are percieved by ordinary people, rather than doing some obscure actions that only make sense to activists in the pub afterwards. It was Abbie Hoffman who said that every action must make an immediate and obvious statement, and I'm inclined to agree with him. We should be doing stuff that immediately strikes a chord, not stuff that means something to us while leaving ordinary people confused.

 

[charlie mowbray]

Well they organised a demo against the murder of that Colombian lad on Mayday, and the London embassy. That's why I offered to join, but it looks like I'm still stuck in candidate membership status


And let's not under-estimate the importance of publishing prop, keeping ideas alive, offering anarcho analyses of current events, etc. For example, I'm gagging for a good libertarian analysis of the paris riots, and I'd hope that one of the AF's frog sister groups could provide it.

If you wanna join, PM gawkrodger. I don't know why this has happened. Whereabouts are you, by the way (you can pm me that if you don't want it public)
And yes, we get all the French anarchist press, and often translate from it.So more than likely we'll put srtuff out in Organise! and/or Resistance

 

[Taxamo Welf]

yes absolutely

 

[gawkrodger]

i'd agree with most of that. Thing is i can think of a number of actions that AFers have bveen involved with recently which weren't activist orientated, but we haven'tr said much about them at all

 

[charlie mowbray]

We do indeed.

Self-promotion is one thing the Swappies (Grrrr!) do very well. They have shown themselves very adept at attracting members by presenting themselves as the only game in town. Granted, most of those members then leave within a matter of weeks, but they are good at promoting themselves.

Maybe AF needs to discuss at conference, at a national level, what sort of promotion we are comfortable with. I don't mean suckering people in who may not know any better, but taking a serious look at the negative image that Anarchism and Anarchists have in the wider world.

I was in the meeting at the Bookfair, when we were discussing how to get out of the activist ghetto and how many calls to do so have been made and seemingly largely ignored. I'd advocate looking hard at the kind of tactics, propaganda and actions we are employing, then keeping what is useful and discarding what is not.

As far as actions go, maybe we should be planning our actions with regard to the way we are percieved by ordinary people, rather than doing some obscure actions that only make sense to activists in the pub afterwards. It was Abbie Hoffman who said that every action must make an immediate and obvious statement, and I'm inclined to agree with him. We should be doing stuff that immediately strikes a chord, not stuff that means something to us while leaving ordinary people confused.

Trouble is, Abbie Hoffmann was the King of the stunt and stuntism himself!!

 

[Pilgrim]

Trouble is, Abbie Hoffmann was the King of the stunt and stuntism himself!!

True, Hoffman certainly had a fair sense of spectacle.

But his point does stand. Why do an action that only means something to activists, when we can do things that actually click with the man/woman in the street?

It makes no sense at all, IMHO, to be doing public actions that WE think are really clever, while leaving ordinary members of the public looking at us and thinking "WTF?"

If we are going to expand in terms of membership and actual influence our propaganda and actions should be outward looking, and should immediately strike a chord with people outside the the activist community (if we are even cohesive enough to be called a 'community').

That's the way I see it, anyway.

 

[treelover]

Maybe the following may give some insight into why such groups have not totally benefited from the demise of trotskyism,


There is a major radical film festival on Leeds: The Revolution Will Not Be Televised', (original eh?) organised by various radicals In the city and while not knocking the scope and hard work obviously put into it, out of twenty films only one is really about the uk and none really about uk w/class issues. It's as if internationalism and the 'glamour issues are all that counts, despite there being millions in this country who are suffering, but thats not 'sexy' is it? I also have to say it appears that it helps if you are originally from a different country or even have a different skin colour to gain the interest, sympathy and ultimately activity from the uk radicals. Thus, part of the programme has a talk about 'precarity' but apparently its really only migrants who suffer from such things, never mind the uk having the most flexible labour market in Europe and and the most punitive welfare system with worse to come.

just what is going wrong here?




7pm Talks & films Worker precarity & resistance in action

'What on earth is precarity? Well, whether we are ‘chainworkers’ in shopping centres and supermarkets, or ‘brainworkers’ floating around as freelance computer programmers and journalists, we are all suffering from rising job insecurity, intermittent work, employer attacks on basic rights, living costs and a general assault on what is left of the welfare state.
'his ‘precarious’ existence is particularly felt by migrant workers - and now they are fighting back. Come and hear Polish migrant workers living in the North West talk about their ongoing struggle against Resource Recruitment and Woolworths in Rochdale for breaking promises of decent pay and accommodation once they had been successfully lured from their home country. Followed by a series of short films on the theme of ‘precarity ‘

https://publish.indymedia.org.uk/en/regions/leedsbradford/2005/11/326999.html

 

[treelover]

This is despite there being some good uk films about life here on the periphery

http://www.mediaactivist.com/documentaries.htm

 

[charlie mowbray]

True, Hoffman certainly had a fair sense of spectacle.

But his point does stand. Why do an action that only means something to activists, when we can do things that actually click with the man/woman in the street?

It makes no sense at all, IMHO, to be doing public actions that WE think are really clever, while leaving ordinary members of the public looking at us and thinking "WTF?"

If we are going to expand in terms of membership and actual influence our propaganda and actions should be outward looking, and should immediately strike a chord with people outside the the activist community (if we are even cohesive enough to be called a 'community').

That's the way I see it, anyway.

I'm not disagreeing. Far from it.

 

[Herbert Read]

i don't know about that guys...
From what i've seen of both groups.... WP are harder. Haven't met Herbert 'i feel no pain' Read yet, he might swing it.

But it would be a game of 2 on one for most, so yes, i think the AF would eventually win.

what a sily discussion

but i also can get mi mates who hate trots to beat them up

 

[Herbert Read]

Thats a good question - but i think icepick is active enough anyway.

BTW this was a genuine question: I'd like to know from some recent joinees why they joined rather than another group. I haven't seen the af do anything apart from publish prop. Ever.

because some of us are adults and dont need to brag in the playground

 

[Stevil]

yeh, i was going to mention SF also increasing. Midlands numbers have gone from 0 about 4-5 years ago to 2

Percentage wise that's an amazing increase. Always had problems with the midlands, there was a West Midlands SF a while back. Is Northampton counted as the Midlands? They are doing well.

Here in the North West the membership has increased, doubled in Preston over the past year and Manchester has had new members. Scotland doing well as well.

I was told there was an AF member in Lancashire but have yet to find him/her. Hello, hello are you there? come and speak to us.

 

[gawkrodger]

there's a new AFer in Preston. PM me and i'll pass on contact details