Is taking photographs of homeless people for your own self gain wrong?

[Sasaferrato]

I'm going to bed now. I have a safe room with a bed and blankets and shit. I have a luxury room these days

I will think about all my mates here who are now drunken comatosed under bridges, in doorways, in the park on a bench. It isn't actually that bad! I prefer it to mortgage gloom and pay back stress. I still sleep with all doors and windows wide open even in winter. I like it. I feel safe.

Few here go hungry. There are plenty of free kitchens run by religious groups. Say prayers and you get your morning coffee. Evenings are just a get the grub rush. Addicts, wronguns, lostuns and others.

But, when you are hungry, lacking nicotiene, booze, or whatever and some cunt sticks a camera in your face without so much as a 'hello', it fucking hurts to the point of rage. So, don't be surprised if one of those 'reactionary' down and outs comes along and whacks you in the face if you haven't even got the decency and courage to say 'hello' in the first instance.

OK. I'm off to bed now

Thank you. That explains, although does not excuse, your reaction. Neither I, nor anyone else here knew your circumstances, how could we?

 

[Sasaferrato]

Where have I been abusive to you, in fact, I'll extant that so far as to say when I have ever been abusive to you in my 7 years on these boards?

Apologies Firky. You didn't.

 

[Firky]

 

[zenie]

1) So he took photos, by your own admission, to better his degree and to rid himself this guilt he did soup runs.

It is relevant insofar as the person on flickr obvisouly wanted recognition for his 'art'.

what guilt dude? Maybe he really loved helping the homeless and did his degree after he's started the soup run?

I don't like it myself, would feel weird...but I only feel that way about homeless people.

if someone I knew had an interesting stump, or some other disfigurement, I wouldn't mind asking them if I could photograph them, but then maybe that's cos I know them

Having been homeless I know how people can look at you, they just look through you a lot of the time, like you're not there, you don't exist on their radar. I don't think I'd have been happy with a camera in my face when I was already so vunerable. So, I don't really think it's fair to ask someone no.

If I was working for someone like Shelter or another homeless charity then yeh I guess I'd be ok with it. Because you're actually raising awareness, rather than saying you are in order to increase those 'gritty' portfolio shots.

They never did. I always found the German police much more brusque than our lot. Not that I ever went out of my way to offend them, not when they have a gun on their hip.

I wasn't scared of the Ob til I saw the German Police in full riot gear (they looked like something out of a sci-fi film) with bug fuck off guns by their side

 

[Firky]

Want to seem my an interesting stump? It gets bigger the more you touvch it

 

[El Jefe]

good to have you back, you dutty fucker

 

[Firky]

good to have you back, you dutty fucker

*takes a bow*

Well some fucker has to say it

 

[snadge]

he's taking the piss firks, sass that is

There is a way to get away with this type of photography and it hasn't to do with artistic expression, it's to do humility and the ability to integrate oneself into an alien scenario and live that with your subjects, giving a damn if you will.

that is why most homeless type pics look staged or as someone has said at the end of 200mm lens, the ones that don't create impact in a way the art farts could only dream of, in them cases though the photographer was accepted by his subjects,part of that scene and accepted as someone that has integrity, willing to give their ability to help people in positions of despair by making sure they had food and bedding, that person is the artist.

There are very few of that type though


BTW firky, that flikr bloke you pointed to, I feel as though he was involved at that time, maybe not now but it seems he had a rapport with his subjects at that time.


I feel that his photography is excellent, at least in that era.

 

[El Jefe]

he's taking the piss firks.

Erm. I'm not. Firky's a good mate and I miss him when he's not around.

 

[snadge]

Erm. I'm not. Firky's a good mate and I miss him when he's not around.

sos mate just edited....

 

[Firky]

BTW firky, that flikr bloke you pointed to, I feel as though he was involved at that time, maybe not now but it seems he had a rapport with his subjects at that time.


I feel that his photography is excellent, at least in that era.

He wants to be Charles Bukowski with a camera and he isn't. That is why he spams people on flickr.

 

[cybertect]

1) So he took photos, by your own admission, to better his degree and to rid himself this guilt he did soup runs.

Did I say anywhere that he took the photos to better his degree?

I said he was studying art, which presumably means he had an interest in image-making.

I can neither deny nor confirm that he used those particular photographs as part of his coursework, which is one of the reasons I said I'd rather not speculate further about his motivations. Without asking him directly, I don't know.


Your implication that he rid himself of the guilt of taking pictures of homeless people by doing soup runs simply doesn't make sense anyhow. It was while he was doing the soup runs that he took the pictures.

Unless he was feeling guilt in anticipation of taking pictures of homeless people that he would encounter while doing the soup runs that were assuaging his guilt for the pictures that he was going to take... [etc. in an endless loop] ?

Are you suggesting that it's wrong to take pictures of homeless people in all circumstances?

 

[Firky]

Are you suggesting that it's wrong to take pictures of homeless people in all circumstances?

No, as the title of this thread gives away.

A Perect opportunity to take photographs of people in need is on a soup run, yes?

 

[cybertect]

I admire your cynicism

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

No, as the title of this thread gives away.

A Perect opportunity to take photographs of people in need is on a soup run, yes?

I've seen various pictures taken by you involving what appears to be unknowing subjects, such as the one of the old person sitting on a bench, etc. I'm assuming you didn't pay these people, or talk to them.

Why the distinction wrt someone you perceive to be in bad economic straits?

 

[snadge]

He wants to be Charles Bukowski with a camera and he isn't. That is why he spams people on flickr.

look firky, your a class photographer, you have your style and I think he maybe just acknowledging that, he's got a load of poo alongside some inspirational stuff but I do feel he did the right thing with his 1970 homeless stuff, there is a few that is staged but the subjects look like they are comfortable with that.

 

[Firky]

I've seen various pictures taken by you involving what appears to be unknowing subjects, such as the one of the old person sitting on a bench, etc. I'm assuming you didn't pay these people, or talk to them.

Oh I did, that bloke on the bench, yup talked to him. He wasn't homeless.

One thing I have learned in life is the nice guy fails, always.

 

[Firky]

look firky, your a class photographer, you have your style and I think he maybe just acknowledging that, he's got a load of poo alongside some inspirational stuff but I do feel he did the right thing with his 1970 homeless stuff, there is a few that is staged but the subjects look like they are comfortable with that.

1) I aint a good photographer, I just copy what I like and lookds good. Thanks tho'.

2) Wghat become of the subjects?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Oh I did, that bloke on the bench, yup talked to him. He wasn't homeless.

One thing I have learned in life is the nice guy fails, always.

Do you speak with all subjects whom you photograph on the street? I recall a series with a group of women in some street.

My point is that whatever you think is right to do for people in general, is right wrt homeless people also. To the extent that you offer them money, that's a good thing as a matter of general principle.

 

[snadge]

1) I aint a good photographer, I just copy what I like and lookds good. Thanks tho'.

2) Wghat become of the subjects?

1. yes you are, you have a definite style which when you think, comes across.

2. That isn't the point, the point is that we are discussing it almost 40 years later.

 

[Firky]

Do you speak with all subjects whom you photograph on the street? I recall a series with a group of women in some street.

you mean the one I got published on the guardian, indie and bbc? They were not homeless, I lived with them

 

[snadge]

One thing I have learned in life is the nice guy fails, always.

fails in what, being nice?

I don't think so.

 

[Firky]

1. yes you are, you have a definite style which when you think, comes across.

2. That isn't the point, the point is that we are discussing it almost 40 years later.

1) Bollocs do I have a style I see something and copy it,you are better at taking photos than myself.

2) eh? forgive me, but weed and alcohol takes it's toll.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

you mean the one I got published on the guardian, indie and bbc? They were not homeless, I lived with them

Judging by their dress, I'd assumed they weren't homeless.

You're skirting the point.

 

[snadge]

1) Bollocs do I have a style I see something and copy it,you are better at taking photos than myself.

2) eh? forgive me, but weed and alcohol takes it's toll.

1. having the ability to interpret another photographers thought process and reproduce that is an art in itself but I feel you only use that as a learning process as we all do to an extent, copying styles is not a crime, most have been done already and almost every picture we take today is a copy of another persons without us having ever seen the original concept, probably done years ago, to be a photographer of worth, especially with human subjects takes a certain ability to allow your subject to accept you as a photographer to participate in their world view, being a nice person will let you be able to capture emotion as an image more than if you are at the end of a 200mm lens with no involvement, saying that 200mm lenses are superb on portraits.

I also need to take more pictures I must have only taken 1000 since I started digital photography, I have confidence issues holding a camera, thanks for the compliment though.

2. nothing wrong with that mate.

 

[mhendo]

Went to a baseball game with some friends here in Baltimore the other night. After the game finished, the crowd was streaming out onto the streets, and there was a homeless guy sitting on the sidewalk asking for change.

Out of the blue, three young women (can't have been more than 19 or 20) came up. Two ran around behind him and made silly faces, while the third one snapped a picture of them all. Then the three girls ran off giggling.

My friends and i were just dumbstruck. Had half a mind to chase them down and beat them to death with their own camera.

 

[Wolveryeti]

The bottom line is thinking about other peoples' feelings. I would probably take a picture of an asleep homeless person without asking (who wants to be woken up by that shit) but otherwise no.

 

[Pavlik]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/ledgard/1922321774/

I've always liked pictures like that but as i said somewhere else this week, I don't like the way people take pictures of people without permission, especially in poorer countries. There were so many people with cameras in India last year poking their lenses into peoples homes and faces that it made me too embarrassed to be a part of it.
Most of my pictures are taken after sitting with someone for a while and buying whatever they're selling or having a chat and getting to know them a little first.

 

[e19896]

Simple question. Poll to follow.

Say if I took a photograph of a person who was homeless to enter in a comp' to further myself and my own ego, would that be wrong of me?

Yes you are right firky, i would always ask and one of the people i often took images paul was murdered last weekend, i was happy to give a image of him to the police to help get the scum that kicked him to death. agreed a mouthy piss head at times, but wtf can not people simply walk on?

 

[Mr Moose]

For the most part its parasitic.