Is Primitivism anarchist?

Discussion in 'theory, philosophy & history' started by Steve Booth, Aug 18, 2005.

  1. NoXion

    NoXion Eat leaden death, demon...

    The Founding Fathers of the US might have been inspired by indigenous political structures, but democratic and semi-democratic approaches can be found in cultures from all over the world.

    As for whether class is inherent to civilisation, I think we should try actually building a classless society first. Empiricism over theory and all that.

    I mean, this whole idea that life was some kind of Edenic paradise before nasty old civilisation came along to ruin things, sounds like a cross between that old "Noble Savage" bullshit, and people with certain politics seeing what they want to see in selected societies.
    Almor, danny la rouge and mojo pixy like this.

  2. They weren't just inspired. They stole it directly from the meeting protocol of the Indians

    Yes, I think the Greeks might have had something to do with it ..... and your point is?

    And people say I don`t make any sense.

    The Indigiouness people already achieved a fair society before snivilisation crept along. The Americans had 200 years of peace before white Europeans came along. Your snotty reference is incredibly insulting! I have worked alongside Indigiouness Americans and tribes from the Niger-Delta who fight with their lives against global capitalism (armed conflict!) and I can tell you now the `Savage` is Nobel . And they are more effective than a theoretical communist like you could ever dream of being .


    You should tell them they waste their time.
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2018
  3. NoXion

    NoXion Eat leaden death, demon...

    Stole it eh? Did the Indians have the concept of intellectual property as well, or is that just you projecting your expectations onto idealised cultures?

    Politics isn't about being original.

    Looks fine to me. What in particular are you having problems with?

    So you're doubling down on the "Noble Savage" bullshit then.

    The idea that indigenous societies are necessarily "fair" is complete horseshit - I'm sure the peoples subjugated under the Aztec Empire would have laughed at your naivete. Pre-Columbian peoples of the Americas were also no strangers to war.
  4. Actually - Your the first to make it onto my ignore list. Congrats. You fucking tard!
  5. NoXion

    NoXion Eat leaden death, demon...

    Why are you trying to change the subject? Your personal experience is just that - your personal experience, no more reflective of the bigger picture than my own personal experience.

    When I said that we should actually make an attempt at building a classless society with advanced technology, before declaring the task impossible, you pretended not to understand.

    When I pointed out an historical counter-example to your argument, you ignored that in favour of having a go at me.
  6. *deep breaths

    Unfortunately, I can`t live in ignorance.

    You ignored the fact that the Indigiouness Americans had 200 years of peace before your beloved white Europeans arrived. Fu*k your space communism, you child.

    What is your personal experience on this matter? <-Awnser this

    What SA`s. Do you not understand what happens to a civilisation(<-notice this) as it crumbles... or are you a complete idiot?

    You do not understand why I am finding your spoilt under experienced views irritating?

    Do you need sources.... it`s just that these things are taken for granted by anybody with the slightest grasp of anthropology and politics. I`ll get them for you if you haven't figured out how to use a search engine :)
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2018
  7. NoXion

    NoXion Eat leaden death, demon...

    Well I'm disputing your "fact", because agriculture was no strange concept to the pre-Columbian Americas, and if there is one constant of human societies once agriculture has been invented, it's the presence to varying degrees of some kind of armed conflict. Arable land is a limited resource that's worth fighting over.

    What matter? Working with indigenous people? Well as a white guy living in the UK I think I can safely say that I *am* an indigenous person.

    Part of the reason a small ragged band of Conquistadors were so successful in toppling the Aztec Empire (rather than being driven back to the sea by greater numbers) was because they garnered the support of subject peoples, who were chafing under the extraction of tributes the Aztecs carried out routinely in support their Empire.
  8. bimble

    bimble noisy but small

    Hi Ralph. What things are taken for granted by anyone with slightest grasp of anthropology? Is it that 'indigenous people' live in 'fair societies'? You are talking complete bollocks.
  9. Where did I say that?
    I was refering to the 200 years of peace.
    Don`t worry i`ll get the sources for you now.
  10. bimble

    bimble noisy but small

    You said 'these things are taken for granted by anybody with the slightest grasp of anthropology.."
    I was asking you to explain what things you are talking about.
  11. danny la rouge

    danny la rouge Warning: posts may cause vasovagal presyncope

    What is the "American concept of democracy"? Do you mean as enshrined in the Constitution? Do you mean some sort of popular common sense (that you're going to provide an example of or evidence for?).

    I can see no evidence that the US "democratic" institutions were inspired by or value consensus decision-making. Quite the opposite in fact.

    Neither were the Pilgrim Fathers inspired by Native American society. The fundamentalist zealots who were driven from Europe were patriarchal, sectarian dogmatic Christians, who far from seeking freedom from oppression, were actually seeking the freedom to oppress.

    I don't know what you've been reading, but I recommend starting with Howard Zinn's A People's History of the United States.
    campanula, Fozzie Bear and NoXion like this.
  12. Yes, ive read it thanks
    I`ll get those sources now.

    Hang on- there's so much of it and I`m trying to find something culturally appropriate for you guys to digest.(you won`t belive it if a `savage` sais it)
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2018
  13. danny la rouge

    danny la rouge Warning: posts may cause vasovagal presyncope

    Read it again, then. Because you seem to have missed the important bits.
  14. To be fair to you, it`s not shouted from the roof tops .Can you just let me get these sources please?
  15. JimW

    JimW 支那暗杀团

    This two hundred years of peace is bollocks. Big and diverse place of course but plenty of precolumbian fighting in what later became the US.
    danny la rouge and NoXion like this.
  16. mojo pixy

    mojo pixy unquantifiable hazards

    tbf, based on your link I don't see anything wrong with
    NoXion likes this.
  17. NoXion

    NoXion Eat leaden death, demon...

    I was thinking of pointing that out, actually. Although to be honest I haven't looked into my ancestry, for all I know my great-grandparents could have come from somewhere else.
  18. You cannot be serious !?!?!
  19. bimble

    bimble noisy but small

    Ralph have you got loads of ‘tribal’ tattoos?
  20. danny la rouge

    danny la rouge Warning: posts may cause vasovagal presyncope

    My recent ancestors definitely came from somewhere else. But go back far enough and everyone's did.

    I have a serious problem with apportioning "authenticity" to people based on notions of genetics.
  21. NoXion

    NoXion Eat leaden death, demon...

    I don't think most people who research their own ancestry are pursuing "authenticity", so much as they are seeking a connection to the past, wherever it may lead them.
    krtek a houby likes this.
  22. NoXion

    NoXion Eat leaden death, demon...

    Judge a man not by the tattoos on his skin, but by the content of his character. :)

    EDIT: Although swastika tattoos should probably be taken as a definite warning sign!
    danny la rouge likes this.
  23. danny la rouge

    danny la rouge Warning: posts may cause vasovagal presyncope

    I was talking more about what seems to be Ralph Llama's view of "indigenous peoples". (Especially given that he seems to be saying the UK doesn't have any).
    mojo pixy and NoXion like this.
  24. bimble

    bimble noisy but small

    Yes sorry, NoXion I’m just curious (as an anthropologist ) :D
    NoXion likes this.
  25. Who said anything about authenticity? So you would disqualify the indigenous culture, knowledge and struggles of the whole planet?
    Pretty radical notion that :eek:
  26. No i`m not :rolleyes:
  27. I would love to read what youve published ... links?
  28. danny la rouge

    danny la rouge Warning: posts may cause vasovagal presyncope

    It's hard to know what you are saying. You're all over the place. You seemed to be imputing some kind or pure and special knowledge to "indigenous peoples", which looked to me like New Age Noble Savage idealism. I paraphrased that as "authenticity". You tell us what you mean if that's inaccurate.

    NoXion likes this.

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