Is Primitivism anarchist?

Discussion in 'theory, philosophy & history' started by Steve Booth, Aug 18, 2005.

  1. Ralph Llama

    Ralph Llama Fuck the system.

    Sorry(admins) about that I was drunk and was trolled (somebody bumped this thread then removed post) :D, Of course, I had to return the compliment.. yer sorry about that commies. I will start the clearup .
    *cocks shotgun
    Anybody see anything?

    Glad you liked that crossthebreeze :thumbs:
     
  2. JimW

    JimW 支那暗杀团

    But works the same way as a handmade pair of shoes is better than a mass-produced one with similar issues getting a pair on everyone's feet; plus even if we were farming in some future revolutionary society we might want to sacrifice a bit of unit yield for less very hard physical work, quite apart from any possible technical advances.
     
    NoXion and crossthebreeze like this.
  3. Ralph Llama

    Ralph Llama Fuck the system.

    You see when you say `less hard physical work` do you realise that people need those jobs?
     
  4. JimW

    JimW 支那暗杀团

    Your anarchist position is that people need jobs? Right.
     
    MrSpikey, NoXion and crossthebreeze like this.
  5. Ralph Llama

    Ralph Llama Fuck the system.

    No it was a little more complex than that. That is part of my argument though. I am an anarchist, but i`m certainly not speaking on behalf of all Anarchists. I`m just saying what I think.
     
  6. JimW

    JimW 支那暗杀团

    I've suggested that in some future better society we might not want to do all the very hardest jobs by hand but your revolutionary vision seems to be stuck in the world of paying jobs which is the present capitalist order.
     
  7. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    Yeh let's be primmie and do everything by hand.

    Yeh people need those jobs atm but I'd hope any anarchist worth their salt would consider a better future would be one in which the shitwork was mechanised or done by machine. Do you think brickies etc enjoy wearing their bodies out carting round heavy weights?
     
    NoXion likes this.
  8. Ralph Llama

    Ralph Llama Fuck the system.

    Revolutionary vision LOL. I was just defending a rational viewpoint (AnarcoPrim) against an un-rational argument (badly thought out communism)

    I am not an anarcho primitivist :rolleyes: But it makes more sense to me than Communism ;)
     
  9. Ralph Llama

    Ralph Llama Fuck the system.

    I`ve been labouring for the past few months. It`s ok .Its a bit like going to the gym but you get paid.
     
  10. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    Yeh. What fun.
     
    crossthebreeze likes this.
  11. Ralph Llama

    Ralph Llama Fuck the system.

    More fun than being a homeless alcoholic, searching for shelter and food.

    ahhhhhhhh
     
  12. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    I imagine so. But you appeared to be saying hard physical labour would be a feature of life in a better future society, and it's my contention that where such work can be done with or by machines it should be. Should people be digging ore out of the ground by hand where it can be done with machines? Should quarries operate without machinery? Surely a better future society would be one in which no one needs to do hard physical labour to eke a meagre living, as they do now.
     
    NoXion likes this.
  13. Ralph Llama

    Ralph Llama Fuck the system.

    It`s a dream... an idealism being propagated by the elite. Do you really think they want to look after the poor? Look at history.
     
    mather likes this.
  14. JimW

    JimW 支那暗杀团

    You are all over the shop here. Will they have shops in a primitivist utopia?
     
  15. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    A dream propagated by the elite? Do tell me more.
     
  16. Ralph Llama

    Ralph Llama Fuck the system.

    Jim- I don't know, I haven't formed a notion of a primitivist utopia.
    Pickman`s - When they closed the steel industry a whole generation of people ended up on the streets(Jakies). I know this was down to outsourced wage slavery but would it be any different if the work was given to robots?
     
  17. JimW

    JimW 支那暗杀团

    But that's what I mean about you being all over the shop - if you're defending anarchist primitivism you're defending a view of a post-revolutionary society but then you want to knock other people's visions of the same on the basis they don't fit the present world of wage slavery.
     
  18. 8115

    8115 sitting down is bad for you

    I have primitivist leanings, I don't know why people are so quick to dismiss it. I mean, I wouldn't do without MRI scanners but I find your rejection of physical labour a bit strange.
     
    Ralph Llama likes this.
  19. Ralph Llama

    Ralph Llama Fuck the system.

    @ Jim - Not idealsim again . Anarchism is not an idealism .
     
  20. JimW

    JimW 支那暗杀团

    I have primitivist leanings in as much as I can see that a lot of technology we have can't escape it's capitalist origins and I like handicrafts and the rest; I'm not rejecting physical labour, I'm suggesting that some of it is back-breaking and where unnecessary mechanisation would be welcome. I've done spud-picking and I've worked in bits of south China where they transfer the rice seedlings by hand still. It's not a romantic jolly at the pick-your-own.
     
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  21. JimW

    JimW 支那暗杀团

    You're saying absolutely nothing now. Anarchism is a vision for a different way of organising society; if yours still includes waged work it isn't much different to the lib dems and about as useless.
     
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  22. Ralph Llama

    Ralph Llama Fuck the system.

    Oh ! So your discounting my argument because i`m not an idealist. Great.
    *slow hand claps
    Are we having a discussion here or are you just being a nob-end ?
     
  23. JimW

    JimW 支那暗杀团

    I'm saying I have no idea what your argument is. Do you want their to be jobs with wages? Are you not an idealist in the sense you think it's alright for a few people to drop out and try a bit of primitivism? Good luck to them but not much use to anyone else.
     
  24. Ralph Llama

    Ralph Llama Fuck the system.

    I am not an idealist :) I think its pointless and dangerous. I think its a good thing that there are jobs with wages otherwise a lot of people would starve and be homeless.

    I am not presenting a new hypothesis here.
     
  25. JimW

    JimW 支那暗杀团

    Doesn't exactly fit your tagline of 'fuck the system', waged work is the system.
     
    NoXion likes this.
  26. Ralph Llama

    Ralph Llama Fuck the system.

    Its better paid than slavery though.

    Pick away :)

    The system is a little more than a place to get a job.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018
  27. Mordi

    Mordi Amoral adventurist

    I think one of the things that makes Primitivism appealing is that the sort of labour you're talking about is agricultural. Most Primitivists I'm familiar with say that that's where we went wrong, although some I've read theorise that what went wrong earlier was Patriarchy, which may have developed earlier and provides a motivation for older men with authority to settle in one place and force everyone else to do shit work so that they have more opportunities to breed.

    Personally I find small group hunter gatherer shenanigans compelling as a utopia. In terms of it's political relevancy, I'm sadly unconvinced. Although there's always the post apocalypse to look forward to.
     
    bimble likes this.
  28. JimW

    JimW 支那暗杀团

    Yes, read stuff about the very small amount of work it takes for some forest peoples to have a very rich material life but it's not really a model we can aspire to for the mass of the rest of us.
     
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  29. Yuwipi Woman

    Yuwipi Woman Whack-A-Mole Queen

    Most of the "brickies" that I know are perfectionists, who are happy to trade work for the satisfaction of creating something that will outlast them. If they had exo-suits that took the weight, they'd probably be just as happy. I don't think they'd be happy to hand the whole job over to robots. Technology can be great, but it needs to be appropriate technology.
     
    Ralph Llama likes this.
  30. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

     

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