Is post-anarchism a good idea?

[In Bloom]

Sounds like typical liberal, individualist "anarchism" with a bit of wanky accademic jargon thrown in to me.

And:

anarchism was always a kind of ‘third way’ between liberalism and Marxism

 

[bristol_citizen]

Sounds like typical liberal, individualist "anarchism" with a bit of wanky accademic jargon thrown in to me.

And his wanky academic jargon ain't all that.

...its politico-ethical content may even be provided by the traditional emancipative principles of freedom and equality—principles whose unconditional and irreducible nature was affirmed by the classical anarchists. However, the point is that these principles are no longer grounded in a closed identity but become “empty signifiers” that are open to a number of different articulations decided contingently in the course of struggle

Leaving aside that in his own post-structuralism there's no such thing as an "empty signifier" - quite the reverse - if freedom and equality "are open to a number of different articulations decided contingently in the course of struggle", what's to stop those articulations being neo-liberal, capitalistic, fascist, marxist or just plain daft?
Who will decide?

 

[Chuck Wilson]

But i'm not on about 'anarchist academics' - i'm on about academics! You're not really going to tell me that academics aren't often fiercely competetive and seek to mark out their own specialisations, fields that they become 'the expert' on and are then invited to conferences, to write papers books, programs and articles on/around?

Sounds like a typical anarchist academic in denial

 

[Chuck Wilson]

anarchism was always a kind of ‘third way’ between liberalism and Marxism

I know it depends on which Heinz 57 of anarchist you are/ one is but is there more than a grain of truth in this ?

 

[poet]

But we don't all live in seperate worlds, which is what post-modernists seem to think.

No, but we experience the world in such fundamentally different ways that we may as well be.

 

[charlie mowbray]

I know it depends on which Heinz 57 of anarchist you are/ one is but is there more than a grain of truth in this ?

No.

 

[Chuck Wilson]

No.

Ok. Debate over the chosen one has spoken. Chaz, long time no see. How are you?

 

[charlie mowbray]

All the worse from putting up with your inanities.
Anarchism emerged in the last half of the 19th century as the result of working class struggles and more specifically as a tendency within the First International. It has nothing to do with liberalism ( a manifestation of the "progressive" bourgeoisie) and was a direct continuation of previous currents-the Enrages, the various communist clubs and circles etc

 

[888]

No, but we experience the world in such fundamentally different ways that we may as well be.

But is that really the case, or just an ideological position?

 

[Chuck Wilson]

All the worse from putting up with your inanities.
Anarchism emerged in the last half of the 19th century as the result of working class struggles and more specifically as a tendency within the First International. It has nothing to do with liberalism ( a manifestation of the "progressive" bourgeoisie) and was a direct continuation of previous currents-the Enrages, the various communist clubs and circles etc

Sorry to hear that flower.

Historically I agree with you but some where along the line ( and the same could be said for 'millitant socialsim' ) it has been commandered by sections of the well meaning liberal middle class.Some of the tosh that it posted on here would be a thirdway between never never land and jackanory.

 

[Ryazan]

That was a bit harsh.

 

[charlie mowbray]

Sorry to hear that flower.

Historically I agree with you but some where along the line ( and the same could be said for 'millitant socialsim' ) it has been commandered by sections of the well meaning liberal middle class.Some of the tosh that it posted on here would be a thirdway between never never land and jackanory.

So? That doesn't invalidate what I've said. And taken as a whole, on a world level, anarchism remains very much a "social" or "class struggle" anarchism

 

[Chuck Wilson]

So? That doesn't invalidate what I've said. And taken as a whole, on a world level, anarchism remains very much a "social" or "class struggle" anarchism

So? So? I didn't say that it did.

 

[Chuck Wilson]

That was a bit harsh.

From what you have said about your previous contact with anarchists in Manchester would you disagree?

 

[cockneyrebel]

Historically I agree with you but some where along the line ( and the same could be said for 'millitant socialsim' ) it has been commandered by sections of the well meaning liberal middle class.

Sadly there is truth in that

 

[Ryazan]

True Chuck. I wouldn't class them as workers. Not representative of the unskilled shat upon working class that I come from. But that is not to say that anarchism can be pigeon holed into one thing just soley on the one unpleasant experience of a couple of middle class (depending on your class analysis ) twats, who had no answer to my question about why their organisation has no decent links with working class communities- away from the academia which is based in an unreality compared with the day to day concerns of poorer people- apart from to eat (I think they were attempting to be ironic) chip butties.

Class.

 

[Herbert Read]

True Chuck. I wouldn't class them as workers. Not representative of the unskilled shat upon working class that I come from.

I dont think you mentioned you were working class before how interesting.

Other wise spot on about not been able to judge entire political movements by a few idiots.

 

[bristol_citizen]

There's an entertaining piece on the middle classes and anarchism here.
But it seems that our postanarchist friend is saying is that there's a whole anti-globalisation movement out there that behaves like anarchists but doesn't define itself as anarchist. Neither do they fit a simple class analysis. Is there not some truth in this?

 

[Treacle Toes]

Couldn't resist quoting a comment to his essay

Very provocative, extremely erudite.

But I'd like to know. If a consensus narrative of history is taboo, then how can you rely so heavily on a historical-narrative continuum of philosophy in constructing this article? Are the inner workings of Derrida's mind more valid than the humanist bliss of Kropotkin simply because Derrida is so damn breathlessly post--modern? Does Derrida trump Kropotkin because Derrida mirrors our proud placement in the here and now? i.e. at the top of any construable historical-narrative food chain.

I mean who? what? why?....priceless!

 

[charlie mowbray]

Wot da fuck?
I was at a meeting in the wastes of East London last night about the Olympics and some middle class nob was throwing around words like "disjuncture" etc which passed over everyone's heads. I turned to Barry B. (for it was he) afterwards and asked "What does disjuncture mean"? Like me, he didn't have a clue.
There were some travellers there ( i mean old-style travellers, not new age) and they were articulate and coherent and cut through the crap, thank fuck!

 

[LLETSA]

Madazza Attica next in queue?

Other wise spot on about not been able to judge entire political movements by a few idiots.

In confessional mode, Herbie?

 

[Ryazan]

I dont think you mentioned you were working class before how interesting.

Other wise spot on about not been able to judge entire political movements by a few idiots.

That obviously stung, considering your reaction. Are you are you a middle class twat too?

 

[Ryazan]

There's an entertaining piece on the middle classes and anarchism here.
But it seems that our postanarchist friend is saying is that there's a whole anti-globalisation movement out there that behaves like anarchists but doesn't define itself as anarchist. Neither do they fit a simple class analysis. Is there not some truth in this?

I know, I am deeply suspicious of any middle class person who smugly claims themselves to be working class, due to some one size fits all class analysis. Summat ta do wit capitalizum or summat.

 

[charlie mowbray]

I know, I am deeply suspicious of any middle class person who smugly claims themselves to be working class, due to some one size fits all class analysis. Summat ta do wit capitalizum or summat.

I know Herbert, and he isn't a "middle class twat".
Are you?

 

[Ryazan]

No. I was asking Herbert, not you.

 

[Herbert Read]

Im talking about you LLETSA

In confessional mode, Herbie?

not really just making the point that just because some one like you is an ignorant blinkered twat, not all so called socialists are bad.

 

[Herbert Read]

No. I was asking Herbert, not you.

well for the sake of posterity

Im the son of irish immigrants my mums a nurse my dad a chef, grew up in terraced house. catholic comprehensive schooling.

I have worked lots of dead end jobs such as labouring , portering, nursing care assistant before entering social work.

politically i was involved in trade unionism, antifascism, socailist alliance, then the SWP before i became disgusted with with all brands of red and began to fly the black flag.

I was approached by a man in a dark hood who gave me a membership card with a pistol and dagger on it with the number 06789 on it, his name was charlie mowbary and he told me i was in the anarchist brotherhood.

Please oh please let me qualify to be working class im soo desperate for acceptance from you....

 

[LLETSA]

not really just making the point that just because some one like you is an ignorant blinkered twat, not all so called socialists are bad.

Oh.

 

[LLETSA]

No. I was asking Herbert, not you.

All questions regarding anarchism have to go through Chaz M.

 

[charlie mowbray]

Yeah, whatever.
Twat.