Is pornography wrong or bad?

[Kanda]

that culminates in a mutual exchange of orgasms

erm... er... mutual???!!!

 

[Blagsta]

Either that or normal. And you had better hope you're right, coz if you're wrong, you're the one that's weird.

But in any case, if you have me down as weird, then that's your call. Fuck all to do with me.

no self awareness either

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

But in any case, the OP explicitly excluded this from discussion.

that depends on how you define "simple straight stuff"


i wouldn't equate the majority of anime porn to pig fucking



the anime porn in which they fuck pigs well yes ... but the mainstream... nah

 

[Dillinger4]

that depends on how you define "simple straight stuff"


i wouldn't equate the majority of anime porn to pig fucking



the anime porn in which they fuck pigs well yes ... but the mainstream... nah

Yeh but they are cartoons.

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

(((Shippy)))

I still find it incredible to imagine anyone actually gets off on anime 'porn'. But each to their own eh?

to be honest a lot of it is laughably bad... especially the animated stuff.... it's cheap poorly animated and .... well it's almost as plot-less as real porn... go for the comedy stuff i say

 

[jonH]

There's nought wrong with porn, it's the people who demand it, they're wankers.

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

Yeh but they are cartoons.

i know i know possibly not "simple straight stuff"

but an intresting train of thought non the less

especially comparing say the live action japanese maid styles porn with anime maid porn

 

[NoEgo]

There is this general perception that people think that women are being exploited (which i mainly think is rubbish because most women in the industry clearly do it willingly) but seriously, isn't it the men who are really being exploited here?

 

[Dillinger4]

Just because women might do it willingly doesn't mean they are not being exploited.

 

[NoEgo]

Just because women might do it willingly doesn't mean they are not being exploited.

And how might your example be any different to any other sort of exploitation in any other industry?

http://www.dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=27116&dict=CALD

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Meh...I think Nirvana said it best, "Come, as you are..."...

 

[fela fan]

Just because women might do it willingly doesn't mean they are not being exploited.

When it comes to this exploitation word, i'd reckon nearly all of us are to an extent, maybe even more than those who make money from pornography. It's really not about women being exploited, people are full stop.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Either that or normal. And you had better hope you're right, coz if you're wrong, you're the one that's weird.
.

Innit?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Sex with someone you want to have sex with, that culminates in a mutual exchange of orgasms, in a comfortable environment

So if one of the two of you doesn't have an orgasm, it's not normal sex?

I've got a feeling there's lots of women out there who'd tell you that sex without orgasm is totally normal, par for the course.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

It's just not sex as you know it. It starts and stops so the director can get a camera angle. It's staged to look good, not feel good. For the women, it's unlikely that she'll have an orgasm (clitoral stimulation involves getting something inbetween the camera and the bits the viewer wants to see). For the man, you have to keep it hard, and go at it for as long as required, and then ejaculate on command. At all times, you are being watched, directed and judged.

If you've made the neccesary mental breaks to find that sort of experience 'fun' then I'd have to wonder what effect those breaks have on the rest of your mind.

Dude. Did you ever see Sophie's Choice? It's the movie with Meryl Streep. At the end, she has to make this horrible, agonizing choice: which of her children will live, which will die? It's an awful moment that wrings emotion out of the audience watching.

Or The Three Stooges? Or the Carry On Gang? All these silly things happen, with lots of really physical stuff that looks painful, but actually makes us laugh.

But the thing of it is, Meryl Streep actually isn't sophie. Those kids in the movie, weren't her kids. Meryl Streep wasn't even born when the Germans were doing those things.

And the Stooges, or the Carry On Gang, aren't really getting hurt, and they probably aren't even feeling comical.

They're actors.

They're doing a job, creating a fiction, calculated to give us the emotions we crave when we go to the movies; like laughter, merriment, bathos, whatever we're feeling like experiencing at the time.

Nowadays, we accept that it's ok to feel horny, and in the same way that we can rent entertainments on DVD that will make us laugh, we can also get ones to watch when we're horny, or wanting to feel that way.

And it may just be that the actors in a porn film feel no more passion, than Meryl Streep felt true agony while acting in Sophie's Choice. It doesn't make them pathological any more than Meryl Streep or Eric Sykes or Groucho Marx are pathological.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

(((Shippy)))

I still find it incredible to imagine anyone actually gets off on anime 'porn'. But each to their own eh?

Is it really that hard to imagine?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

The main issue (it seems to me) is not porn itself, but the culture and climate in which it's made. It's the commodification and subsumption of sex for profit, and it's usually controlled by men, probably not the best combination for ensuring exploitation doesn't happen (2 years ago there was a massive AIDS scare in LA where a debutant actress was double analled and it turned out one of the actors was HIV+).

Men control almost all business. Why would porn be any different?

So what are you telling us: sex is sacred? Is it sacred when monkeys fuck, and if not, why not?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

no self awareness either

Obviously not: he disagrees with you.

 

[cesare]

Men control almost all business. Why would porn be any different?

So what are you telling us: sex is sacred? Is it sacred when monkeys fuck, and if not, why not?

This is a bit like that prostitution thread

 

[Jonti]

Yeah, it's likely to be a rerun of much the same arguments.

A major part of which seems to me to be chaps trying to protect women from other chaps ... 'cos those other chaps is all depraved and that. Depraved in much the same way as those awful women who refuse to give sex away, but prefer to be recompensed for their sexual favours.

What strikes me about the issue of porn is the impact the 'net has had. The old arguments about porn being inherently exploitive of women have become more difficult to accept, I think. After all, it is not difficult to find young women proudly flashing their tits or pointing their pussies at the camera or web-cam, even on amateur sites! There's a vast flood of sexually explicit material made and distributed for free on the 'net -- so much so that the free stuff is seriously affecting the traditional wank mag business.

Is it wrong or bad that humans are one of the most sexualised and sexually active animals? And that this active interest is reflected in fiction, movies and photography etc?

Nah, 'course not! The consequences that follow from the hyper-sexuality of humans are a lot to do with the social milieu; and not so much to do with the nature of sex and sexuality itself.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

This is a bit like that prostitution thread

It all comes down to the same thing.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

What strikes me about the issue of porn is the impact the 'net has had. The old arguments about porn being inherently exploitive of women have become more difficult to accept, I think. After all, it is not difficult to find young women proudly flashing their tits or pointing their pussies at the camera or web-cam, even on amateur sites! There's a vast flood of sexually explicit material made and distributed for free on the 'net -- so much so that the free stuff is seriously affecting the traditional wank mag business..

One thing I've noticed with the proliferation of porn on the internet, is the large representation of russian and eastern european women. Makes one wonder.

 

[Gromit]

Is pornography wrong or bad.

I'll need more detail. Who is the producer and director?
Some of them are really awfull, the plots are dreadful, dialog is even worse but some of them are quite good with production standards that wouldn't be out of place in hollywood. In general though their cinematography sucks.

 

[cesare]

It all comes down to the same thing.

Aye

 

[kyser_soze]

Men control almost all business. Why would porn be any different?

So what are you telling us: sex is sacred? Is it sacred when monkeys fuck, and if not, why not?

Said chica who got HIV...was her first film, from what she said in court when the film produciton company went up because their actors weren't wearing condoms, was that she thought she was making a straight film, no anal, and that she was coerced into doing the DA by the crew on the basis of future career prospects etc etc. No I don't think sex is sacred, but there are more conplex issues of consent then Meryl Streep acting out Solomon's choice in Sophie's baby; there is also a world of difference between the safety culture that exists in filmmaking today and the time making the 3 Stooges, Harold Lloyd etc etc.

While I don't hold sex up as sacred, sexual exploitation can have a deeper psychological impact on people than day-to-day wage slavery exploitation - I'd suggest YouTubing 'Roger Cook' and 'sex trafickking' and see the substantive difference between completely consensual and coerced sex workers.

I'm not going to go down the whole 'So many of them are abused route' either - I doubt there's any more than you'd find in an average workplace, but again it's the impact the work has on their psyches that's key to the issues.

 

[goldenecitrone]

One thing I've noticed with the proliferation of porn on the internet, is the large representation of russian and eastern european women. Makes one wonder.

Makes one wonder what it's like to sleep with an eastern european woman? It's very pleasant, actually.

 

[kyser_soze]

Makes one wonder what it's like to sleep with an eastern european woman? It's very pleasant, actually.

It's the way they look back at you with doe eyes and a sad smile, as if they're thinking 'My God, when will this be over' that does it for me...

*too dark for 10am...where's my head today...*

 

[fela fan]

Sex is dirty.

Making love is where it's at...!

Sex for sex sake seems bloody fantastic to me. Porn seems to be massively popular for some reason. Good way to make money i reckon. Both the actors and the punters seem happy enough.

 

[kyser_soze]

Know many do you fela? Ever spoken to someone who works in a clinic that predominantly services porn actresses who have stuff like prolapsed or split bowels as a result of their work?

 

[gorski]

A few questions:

The first free women, in the documented history, were prostitues. Happened in Medieval times, in free cities. They didn't derive their very existence from a male.

Now, we can surely twist and turn everything on its head and against the essential novum of those early beginnings of Female Freedom "From" and then "For"?

Hmmm... On the whole not given any proper education, no real chances in life, no possibility to grow as Human Beings, as independent women, Subjects in a Modern sense of the word, as all the decisions were made for them [guess by whom] - how far would they be able to go in such conditions? Not very...

But now that all of that has changed - why is it still here?

We are all prostitutes, as we sell our bodies for wages, in a sense. Does that make it all right?

But that, which is the innermost need of Humans - reified/commodified like that? Echhhhhhhhh...

A hint, in your utter alienation, towards a not so blase, "desolved from the object of your debate" potential [maybe even comprehensive] answer: would any of you saying "It's cool!" like to see your mums/sisters/cousins do it?

Anyone seen how the Swedes dealt with prostitution on the level of the whole society, nearly exterminating it?