Is Poker the new Football?
- Thread starter Epicurus
- Start date
Idaho
continuity character
Poker certainly is booming - which is good as I am flogging COPAG cards 
(I'll give you a U75 discount if you ask me nicely 
) Might start flogging a few other bits and bobs soon.
I don't think it is the new football. I think that it will increase in popularity as old middle class stigmas about gambling recede and tv coverage gets more standard. I would say that snooker was more of a like for like comparator - with plenty of people being able to play a bit, as well as a good network of clubs where you can play your friends or take on more competitive matches.
Got a home game on friday. My home game is turning tougher than old boots - and I have been playing so badly lately that I have taken a break - although I did nip into Gutshot on monday - only to bust out of a happy hour tourney after about 5 hands...
Still - I am learning. It's a bugger of a game for learning.
(I'll give you a U75 discount if you ask me nicely ) Might start flogging a few other bits and bobs soon.I don't think it is the new football. I think that it will increase in popularity as old middle class stigmas about gambling recede and tv coverage gets more standard. I would say that snooker was more of a like for like comparator - with plenty of people being able to play a bit, as well as a good network of clubs where you can play your friends or take on more competitive matches.
Got a home game on friday. My home game is turning tougher than old boots - and I have been playing so badly lately that I have taken a break - although I did nip into Gutshot on monday - only to bust out of a happy hour tourney after about 5 hands...
Still - I am learning. It's a bugger of a game for learning.
Idaho said:
What? You mean there's not a magic seat that if you sit in it you get constant pocket rockets?
It's a bit of a joke isn't it? The poker forums are full of people whining about the sites being bent, generally people who are rubbish at cards. The sites are taking a rake whether you win or lose, it's in their best interests to keep everything fair and above board.
Idaho - generally how long do the tournaments at Gutshot go on for? I'm thinking about heading over in the next couple of weeks, and I need to know whether it's worth me booking the next day off work (on the assumption I play well enough to last that long anyway
)
CyberRose
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My old team leader's boyfriend plays alot of online poker and she said that often he would go to an online room with some of his mates and be in contact with each other so that they could fleece the person not in their group of friends out of all their hard earned cashHollis said:Someone who posts here.. was telling me they reckon alot of the online poker sites are rigged in some way..
Idaho
continuity character
CyberRose said:
You asked for it!
Exeter Poker
Exeter Poker Copag Cards
Selling COPAG poker cards Exeter Poker
Normally they sell for about £15 a double pack (plus delivery)
Idaho
continuity character
richsaint said:Idaho - generally how long do the tournaments at Gutshot go on for? I'm thinking about heading over in the next couple of weeks, and I need to know whether it's worth me booking the next day off work (on the assumption I play well enough to last that long anyway
It depends on the tourney. The evening ones go on fairly late - 8pm until 2-3am I believe. I played in a 'happy hour' one which kicks off at 6pm and is over by 8pm.
Play a reasonable game and you'll do fine. I am always suprised by the poor standard of play live. I assume that people would play badly online but if they went out to play poker they would make the effort to play well - but the opposite seems to be the case.
I'm quite the opposite, I find I play pretty inconsistently online. I suppose I find myself getting easily distracted, surfing the web or watching TV whilst playing, that sort of thing. When I play live I'm a lot more focused and generally tighter.
The happy hour looks good, I think I'll give it a go, dip my toes in the water.
The happy hour looks good, I think I'll give it a go, dip my toes in the water.
internetstalker
Get naked!
Idaho said:
that looks like your poker table idaho!!
Do you feel lucky?
OK I’ am trying to workout how to send a PM to more than 1 person once I have done that (and if you know how please tell me) I will tell you what time and what table we should be able to met up and play on.
You may have to join a room that has a waiting list so maybe you should try and get to the room about 15 minutes before the game as it is a maximum of 10 players.
My good news:
I went last night with my oldest Son who also plays to the Grosvenor casino in Brighton to play a poker tournament (£30 buy in) and ended the night at 2am with just 4 other players on the final table when someone said “why don’t we just split the winnings and go home” well we decided to do that and we each got just over £600, now for a return of £600 + and free drinks (non-alcoholic) all evening for no more than £30; its great
I just had to tell someone
Don’t bet with real money unless you can afford to loose it, kids!!!
If you have expressed an interest in playing on-line (just for fun with play money) look out for a PM I will also post it in this thread in case I mess up sending the PM and it only goes to one person.
OK I’ am trying to workout how to send a PM to more than 1 person once I have done that (and if you know how please tell me) I will tell you what time and what table we should be able to met up and play on.
You may have to join a room that has a waiting list so maybe you should try and get to the room about 15 minutes before the game as it is a maximum of 10 players.
My good news:
I went last night with my oldest Son who also plays to the Grosvenor casino in Brighton to play a poker tournament (£30 buy in) and ended the night at 2am with just 4 other players on the final table when someone said “why don’t we just split the winnings and go home” well we decided to do that and we each got just over £600, now for a return of £600 + and free drinks (non-alcoholic) all evening for no more than £30; its great
I just had to tell someone
Don’t bet with real money unless you can afford to loose it, kids!!!
If you have expressed an interest in playing on-line (just for fun with play money) look out for a PM I will also post it in this thread in case I mess up sending the PM and it only goes to one person.
Bumped
OK I have found out how to send PM's to many people but I can only send then to five people at a time, I will PM a mod and ask if I can have dispensation for a poker mailing list and I'm sure if they can make it more that just 5 people they will.
I have on the list so far:
ernestolynch;Idaho; richsaint; CyberRose; Hollis; internetstalker; Chorlton; mrchriswill; Random One; dozzer; ch750536; Jangla; Pickman's model
DOZZER it is telling me your box is full
If your name is here and you want it removed please say so and if you want to join the list just let me know.
I'm off now to see if a mod can give me more that 5 names on my PMs
OK I have found out how to send PM's to many people but I can only send then to five people at a time, I will PM a mod and ask if I can have dispensation for a poker mailing list and I'm sure if they can make it more that just 5 people they will.
I have on the list so far:
ernestolynch;Idaho; richsaint; CyberRose; Hollis; internetstalker; Chorlton; mrchriswill; Random One; dozzer; ch750536; Jangla; Pickman's model
DOZZER it is telling me your box is full
If your name is here and you want it removed please say so and if you want to join the list just let me know.
I'm off now to see if a mod can give me more that 5 names on my PMs
internetstalker
Get naked!
Epicurus said:
thats a bit personal isn't it!!!
better ask dcjazz aswell!!
Epicurus said:
Aye, it's telling me that too. Sorted now.
I hope this works out better than the real money games, we seem to have a leader with organisational skills here.
(I won £60 the other day on William Hill poker
was third out of ... a lot... was only £2 entrance though. )jugularvein
extra
online poker sure is getting big. publicly quoted and people are queing up for shares.
this may be of interest epicurus - i particularly enjoyed reading about who is behind the enterprise and the previous business ventures of Ms Parasol
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4620109.stm
i would be very much up for taking on other urbanites but when i am back in the country in september and have my computer
this may be of interest epicurus - i particularly enjoyed reading about who is behind the enterprise and the previous business ventures of Ms Parasol
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4620109.stm
i would be very much up for taking on other urbanites but when i am back in the country in september and have my computer
I am amazed that people have invested in this and I’m sure that there will be a big betting scandal involving on-line gaming in the near future.jugularvein said:
I have looked very closely at on-line poker and it isn’t really that safe, while they have put in place many safe guards to stop collusion I have managed to play with friends and chat at the same time using irc, I have not been able to get two computers in the same betting room when using a router but I have managed to have two computers on the same table playing in the same room but using two different internet accounts, (we did this by running an extension telephone line from next door). There is a lot of money to be made using collusion and I’m sure it goes on, while the on-line gaming companies can look at IP addresses and also look and see a pattern of the same screen names playing together they can not stop people chatting via irc and have no way of knowing if someone has several internet accounts using different providers and phone lines (these are cheep and easy to install)
There is lots of small poker tournaments where you can win between £300 and £2000 with a buy-in of as little as £10, that is where you need to play if you want to make a few quid, I often play in games like this and you know before you start the maximum you are likely to lose and it is still the case that most people playing in these games don’t fully understand the strategies that are needed in tournament poker, it is a marathon and most players seem to think it is a sprint.
Also you’ll find that most regular players will wait until the final table is down to about 4 players and they just split the prise money between them, the casino’s don’t like it but there is nothing they can do about it and if you win two small games like this a week it is better than working 40 hours, you can spend 5 or 6 hours in a comfortable casino with complementary drinks and food twice a week and make a reasonable living.
I would recommend that people play for play money in tournaments on the Internet and when they win a few try it against real people in a small buy-in tournament, most good casino’s now have things like “rooky night” and that is always a good place to start as before you play in bigger tournaments you need to understand the betting and table rules or someone will spot you and take you on.
I am hoping to arrange an on-line game for next week if I have time and will PM or e-mail the people who have ask to let them know where and when, it will be for fun and using play money.
I don't think it's that much of a problem to be honest. Yeah, there are a handful of people in collusion, but then you also get people colluding in real card rooms, it's just less sophisticated.
The big online poker sites are constantly upgrading ther software to detect strange patterns in betting, the same people playing on tables together etc.
While there will always be cheats, I think they are in the minority and if you're a good player you'll still make money in the long run. You may be unlucky enough to play on one or two tables with people in collusion, but you'll be playing on plenty more tables with crap card players waiting to give you their money.
Also, as I said before, it's in the poker companies best interests to keep everyone happy and playing on their sites, so they are constantly upgrading their software in order to catch the cheats. Rememeber, not only are they making a hell of a lot of money from taking a rake from every pot played, they are also making even more from the interest on the money that you pay into your online account, so any kind of scandal involving collusion on a massive scale, or the sites themselves being rigged will result in them losing a hell of a lot.
Remember, the people who whine the most about the cheats and rigged sites are generally crap card players who need an excuse as to why they keep losing their money.
The big online poker sites are constantly upgrading ther software to detect strange patterns in betting, the same people playing on tables together etc.
While there will always be cheats, I think they are in the minority and if you're a good player you'll still make money in the long run. You may be unlucky enough to play on one or two tables with people in collusion, but you'll be playing on plenty more tables with crap card players waiting to give you their money.
Also, as I said before, it's in the poker companies best interests to keep everyone happy and playing on their sites, so they are constantly upgrading their software in order to catch the cheats. Rememeber, not only are they making a hell of a lot of money from taking a rake from every pot played, they are also making even more from the interest on the money that you pay into your online account, so any kind of scandal involving collusion on a massive scale, or the sites themselves being rigged will result in them losing a hell of a lot.
Remember, the people who whine the most about the cheats and rigged sites are generally crap card players who need an excuse as to why they keep losing their money.
I fully understand what you are saying, but there will be a big scandal it is just a matter of when and not if.richsaint said:
I'd also tell people to look at different sites as well, I'm involved in a Board that is exclusively a poker board and I have seen a number of people who have carried out tests to see the difference between sites and the hands that are produced by those sites, and if you look you'll see some sites appear to have "bigger hands" than others; being a poker player yourself you'll understand that very few winning hands in NL poker are won with much more than a pair but I have seen sites where every 3rd hand on the table is a straight or higher and the odds on that are massive, when you ask their technical support all you get is the standard answer that the programme always starts with a new deck for every game, but that still doesn't account for the number of "high winning hands" that seem to appear.
I real life poker I have never seem a straight flush and only once or twice have I seen 4 of a kind, yet on internet poker rooms I have seen ½ a dozen straight flush’s and when I was playing a few weeks ago for about 7 hours in one sitting I saw 6 X 4 of a kinds come out 3 of them 4 X10’s 1 4X6’s 1 4Xkings, I understand that they play many 1000’s of hands a day but this I was playing in the same room for all that time and I have never seen anything like it at a real poker table.
jugularvein
extra
i agree with you epicurus, i am quite successful in real life but online i only play for small stakes because of the amount of times i have had bad beats with some nutter staying in the hand with nothing and getting his card. the difference between hands in real life and online is just as you describe. one particular guy i know who plays tournaments all over the world and always comes back with something told me he doesn't play online anymore because it is a 'lottery'. while there is money to be made from consistent good play and crunching the numbers you still get mystified at times.
No-one I know personally plays for big money anymore on the ‘net but I do play with a couple of people who make a living from poker and play on-line lots but they only ever play good hands, one is a women from Northern Ireland who is the biggest woman poker player cash wise from the UK who plays on the ‘net so it works for some.jugularvein said:
I’m not by any means saying it is all fixed, but you just seem to get a lot odd “high” hands come out and it just doesn’t happen in real life.
I often play what would be considered strange hands in real poker as most players understand what to play and what not to play so it can make it very hard for people to read you, in the tournament I mentioned about from last Sunday I won two hands that made people play very differently against me; the first was when I had suited connectors 7 8C and got two clubs and an ace on the flop, I went all in (it was still with-in the re-buy time) and the guy to my right also went all in he turned over a pocket pair of Ace’s and I won on the river with the 2 of clubs
also on the final table I went all in against a guy who kept buying the blinds, he has pair of kings and I had ace & 8 clubs and I won again with 2 pairs Ace’s and 8’s. (not great examples as most people I know play those hands but it shows what I mean)
jugularvein said:
The reason it's a lottery is not that the hands are rigged, it's that you've got a higher proportion of idiots playing who will call all the way to the river with 7 2 offsuit. And unfortunately these buggers will occassionaly hit their pair on the turn or the river and make your AK suited look like shit.
But the way you've got to look at it is that 9 times out of ten you're taking their money, it's just that one time they pull it off that sticks in the mind and pisses you off.
The reason you don't get it so often in live play is because generally the standard of play is higher (though often not by much
).I still can't believe that the sites are rigged, it doesn't make any business sense whatsoever. The number of people flocking to your site because they've heard it's easy to make big hands is going to be insignificant compared to the number of people taking their money elsewhere because they want a fair game.
One of the things to bare in mind when comparing the hands you see playing live to the hands you see online is that generally online you'll see 5 times the number of hands played in the same period of time, so big hands are bound to come up more often.
jugularvein
extra
richsaint said:The reason it's a lottery is not that the hands are rigged, it's that you've got a higher proportion of idiots playing who will call all the way to the river with 7 2 offsuit. And unfortunately these buggers will occassionaly hit their pair on the turn or the river and make your AK suited look like shit.
But the way you've got to look at it is that 9 times out of ten you're taking their money, it's just that one time they pull it off that sticks in the mind and pisses you off.
The reason you don't get it so often in live play is because generally the standard of play is higher (though often not by much
I still can't believe that the sites are rigged, it doesn't make any business sense whatsoever. The number of people flocking to your site because they've heard it's easy to make big hands is going to be insignificant compared to the number of people taking their money elsewhere because they want a fair game.
One of the things to bare in mind when comparing the hands you see playing live to the hands you see online is that generally online you'll see 5 times the number of hands played in the same period of time, so big hands are bound to come up more often.
valid points sir but i'll stick to the small stakes as i like to see the whites when i'm taking someone's money. all down to individual preference. it's a war of attrition, particularly online.
sounds like a need a bit of your luck epicurus. or maybe grow a beard, or something different to change it
Richsaint: I agree with most of what you say but the number of players is on the up as it is the “new” big thing, I’d guess for every 100 players that leaves there is 1000 new ones coming in at the moment. Most of the tournaments now are well over subscribed and you have to register early to even get a seat.
Also you are correct that it makes no business sense to have a rigged site and I’d agree, but just do me a favour and go and play 50 hands on Interpoker and 50 hands on Partypoker and look at the difference in the winning hands, it makes no sense to me but I know which I’d play at for real money.
I’m thinking of giving bluesquare a go as I have heard that there are some good players there, but at the moment I’m doing ok for smallish tournament.
I’d be interested to hear from anyone who knows a good game on a Sunday night in London as Brighton is a long way to come home in the early hours, although I’ll be playing again in Brighton soon as it is an easy game
Also you are correct that it makes no business sense to have a rigged site and I’d agree, but just do me a favour and go and play 50 hands on Interpoker and 50 hands on Partypoker and look at the difference in the winning hands, it makes no sense to me but I know which I’d play at for real money.
I’m thinking of giving bluesquare a go as I have heard that there are some good players there, but at the moment I’m doing ok for smallish tournament.
I’d be interested to hear from anyone who knows a good game on a Sunday night in London as Brighton is a long way to come home in the early hours, although I’ll be playing again in Brighton soon as it is an easy game
Epicurus said:
But I would bet many of those 1000 new players wouldn't stay on a site for very long if it was definitely known to be rigged.
Epicurus said:
Unfortunately I can't do that favour as I'm Mac based and apart from PokerRoom none of the buggers will let me play
I will take your word for it. Although I do think you would need to play a hell of a lot more than fifty hands to get afair idea of any sorts of trends, I sometimes go not far off that many being dealt mostly garbage (in live games too).I think the way you need look at internet poker (or at least the sites you think may be rigged) is that it's not the real thing so maybe it's best not to treat it as such. Use it as a way to bankroll your live games or make a bit of pocket money, but don't take it too seriously. If the sites are rigged to deal a higher proportion of big hands (which I'm still slightly sceptical about
), they're fixed for everyone. You stand just the same chance of being dealt the great hands as everyone else, so go with it and enjoy the fishing. Does BlueSquare work in dollars or pounds? I only ask because I was given some advice last night to avoid the William Hill site, for the simple reason that as most sites will take a rake up to a maximum of $3, the William hill site takes a maximum of £3, which is nearly double. Over the course of a few games games it really adds up. I would asume that if BlueSquare worked in pounds they would do the same (I know I would
).
internetstalker
Get naked!
but with online poker you see so many more hands, you're bound to see more str8 flush' and quads!!
i know what you all mean tho', it feels to me that with online poker the worst hand on the flop nearly always improves to the best hand by the river! hence so many bad beats!!
i know what you all mean tho', it feels to me that with online poker the worst hand on the flop nearly always improves to the best hand by the river! hence so many bad beats!!
